Does this bill for installing an outside plug seem expensive

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#2938960 6-Jul-2022 19:42

And new build tends to be quite a bit easier/faster than a rewire.

I imagine the question here is simply how much work was involved at the switchboard. An old asbestos board full of fuses and crumbling cable is a pain to deal with, even if you're not actually having to get new cable into the board.

I do think the labour rates are probably about 30% high.

CoCs take a while to write and file and I believe some insurers bill per CoC, so reasonable to charge for IMHO.

Garvos

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Wannabe Geek

#2938970 6-Jul-2022 20:25

This was in southland, the wire runs along the top then drops down to the plug. There wire runs down to the plug runs across that white strip then outside and pretty much drops down out side roughly to the height of the inside plug. From the plug to the white cover is about 1m exactly. They did a pre purchase electrical inspection for us before we bought the house. And although it’s not a modern board and does need updating they where happy with it and we probably would have got them to update it in a couple years (doubt we will use them again after this) . And if they had issues with the board I would have thought they would at least mentioned it in there work notes to justify the labor ?. I will be emailing them in the next couple days as I don’t want to do it while I’m rather annoyed at the cost of it.

insane

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#2938980 6-Jul-2022 21:06

Garvos: ....Does this whole job seem expensive is really all I’m trying to work out or am I over reacting? Coz in my mind I don’t see how this job is worth 800$...

My Sparky who I thought was fairly pricy charges $70/h for his time, and $30 for an apprentice.

Callout/vehicle fee of $30 per person, and $20 for the CoC.

The first thing I always do with any tradie is get a Quote or at a minimum an Estimate if they can't reasonably quote.

There are protections around the variance allowed between a Quote and Estimate and the Invoice.

An invoice cannot exceed the amount on the quote, and should be within 10-15% of an estimate.

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Handle9

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#2939009 7-Jul-2022 06:21

insane:
Garvos: ....Does this whole job seem expensive is really all I’m trying to work out or am I over reacting? Coz in my mind I don’t see how this job is worth 800$...

My Sparky who I thought was fairly pricy charges $70/h for his time, and $30 for an apprentice.

Callout/vehicle fee of $30 per person, and $20 for the CoC.

The first thing I always do with any tradie is get a Quote or at a minimum an Estimate if they can't reasonably quote.

There are protections around the variance allowed between a Quote and Estimate and the Invoice.

An invoice cannot exceed the amount on the quote, and should be within 10-15% of an estimate.

Consumer Protection Site

The price charged can exceed a quote, depending on the way it is tagged and what the contractor finds once they start the work. Most estimators who have a clue can write a quote that allows for all sorts of extra charges, if they are reasonable.

The 10-15% thing is a rough rule of thumb and can be ignored if a contractor has a good reason why the estimate was incorrect.

Taking the time to read, and ask questions so you understand, a price/contract makes a huge difference. You can see that in all the disputes going on over sunset clauses and price variations for "fixed price" contracts.

Services work (electrical, plumbing etc) is a pain on existing installations and often you don't know what you don't know until walls get opened up. Having contractors and clients who can communicate makes a huge difference.

Jase2985

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#2939011 7-Jul-2022 06:47

Handle9:

insane:

My Sparky who I thought was fairly pricy charges $70/h for his time, and $30 for an apprentice.

Callout/vehicle fee of $30 per person, and $20 for the CoC.

The first thing I always do with any tradie is get a Quote or at a minimum an Estimate if they can't reasonably quote.

There are protections around the variance allowed between a Quote and Estimate and the Invoice.

An invoice cannot exceed the amount on the quote, and should be within 10-15% of an estimate.

Consumer Protection Site

The price charged can exceed a quote, depending on the way it is tagged and what the contractor finds once they start the work. Most estimators who have a clue can write a quote that allows for all sorts of extra charges, if they are reasonable.

The 10-15% thing is a rough rule of thumb and can be ignored if a contractor has a good reason why the estimate was incorrect.

Taking the time to read, and ask questions so you understand, a price/contract makes a huge difference. You can see that in all the disputes going on over sunset clauses and price variations for "fixed price" contracts.

Services work (electrical, plumbing etc) is a pain on existing installations and often you don't know what you don't know until walls get opened up. Having contractors and clients who can communicate makes a huge difference.

still need to inform the one paying the bills if its going to go over and if there is any extra work, and they have to agree to it.

Handle9

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#2939012 7-Jul-2022 06:55

You should inform them, and you are stupid if you don’t but you don’t always have to as it may be covered by the contract.

Whether or not you have to depends on the way the contract is written. Generally the terms and conditions of the quote will form the basis of the contract for small domestic stuf. I’ve seen trade quotes which say the client will bear the cost of any additional work.

Similarly I’ve seen contracts that say the contractor has to do any additional work instructed even if there isn’t agreement on whether it’s a no cost or additional cost variation.

It’s beyond me why people don’t read contracts.

Jase2985

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#2939013 7-Jul-2022 07:05

but thats the problem

"A quote is a contract between you and the tradesperson or professional. You don’t have to pay more than the quoted amount, even if the tradesperson or professional asks for more.

If the scope of the work has changed, you should get a new quote or update your contract."

your contracting out of whats a quote actually is.

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Tinkerisk

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#2939014 7-Jul-2022 07:31

@Garvos Pretty expensive socket, next time get 3 comparison quotes beforehand to avoid this.

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John19612

68 posts

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#2939015 7-Jul-2022 07:35

gregmcc:

John19612: You shouldn’t pay the $28.75 for the CoC. This is a mandatory document based on mandatory testing that your labour charge has already paid for. They are double dipping, either discount the labour charge and charge separately for the CoC or drop the charge altogether.

Yes a COC is a mandatory document, it is a legal document that by law the electrician has to produce on demand and store for 7 years, would you tell a lawyer that your not going to pay for legal documents they produce?

$28.75 is a reasonable charge, personally I would be putting more like $50 on it

Your comparison is akin to an orange vs a potato. There is no way I would pay anyone, let alone a lawyer, for both their time and for completing documentation in that time (short of any mandatory local or central government imposed fees). To say otherwise is absurd.

The cost to provide and store compliance documents are so negligible it's not worth considering. The documentation can be obtained for free and storage, either physical or electronic, are minimal. Virtually every job you do requires some form of compliance documentation so it is a standard cost of doing business and therefore should be built into the standard labour charge.

It's no wonder people have developed an inherent mistrust of tradesmen.

John19612

68 posts

Master Geek

#2939016 7-Jul-2022 07:40

OP,

I would check to see if anything is missing from your property as, based your post, the electrician is attempting to rob you blind. Parts are pretty much standard retail which is fine, however, the labour charges and the amount of labour are an issue. I struggle to see how it would take 5 man hours to perform the job as you have described. Perhaps there is a shortage of electricians in Southland as the labour charges of nearly $110 and $75 (for an apprentice!) per hour are definitely very high.

sparkyred

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#2939044 7-Jul-2022 10:04

Apprentice rate is higher than what I had done recently - LED lights over deck (April 2022).

Arguably the apprentice did a harder job getting in our mono pitch roof cavity.

Daynger

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#2939062 7-Jul-2022 10:34

Looks like i need to put my prices up!

Bung

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#2939138 7-Jul-2022 12:06

You need to call Mini Me an apprentice 😀

gregmcc

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#2939369 7-Jul-2022 19:07

John19612:

Your comparison is akin to an orange vs a potato. There is no way I would pay anyone, let alone a lawyer, for both their time and for completing documentation in that time (short of any mandatory local or central government imposed fees). To say otherwise is absurd.

The cost to provide and store compliance documents are so negligible it's not worth considering. The documentation can be obtained for free and storage, either physical or electronic, are minimal. Virtually every job you do requires some form of compliance documentation so it is a standard cost of doing business and therefore should be built into the standard labour charge.

It's no wonder people have developed an inherent mistrust of tradesmen.

FYI a CoC is a mandated government document and required by law for any general or high risk electrical work, is there anything else you think should be built in to the labour charge, the sundarys?, the travel?, the power point? Not every job will require a CoC, low risk work such as repairs does not, so there would not be a CoC charge.

Simple fact is if you build the cost of things that may or may not be needed on a job in to the labour rate, you will price yourself off the market, the fair way is charge for things actually provided, a power point was needed and provided and charged for, a CoC was needed and provided and charge for.

A quick look up of pricing on the gear used on this job, most of the items are slightly more expensive than the price I get gear for, except for the RCBO, the best price I could see was $123+GST, so overall looks like you got a pretty good price on materials (I've allowed for a 33% markup on trade prices), as far as the labour goes, 2.5 hours seems about right, keep in mind that it may seem "easy" from your point of view, but there could have been some challenges you just don't know about, additions/changes to existing an building can be troublesome and some of the labour will be travel there and back.

the labour rate for the Electrician seems about normal, there are higher and lower rates, the apprentice rate is a tad on the high side, overall I think you were charged a fair rate for the work preformed.

blackjack17

1705 posts

Uber Geek

#2939376 7-Jul-2022 19:55

gregmcc:

I've allowed for a 33% markup on trade prices

I have never understood this.

Why should the tradie get to throw on a massive margin on wholesale goods? Even if the goods get delivered to the site.

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