Winter is coming....

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timmmay

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#3046434 6-Mar-2023 19:47

jonherries: Ours is very similar, best investment was - by hand on my belly - digging out under the house and putting down polythene. Went from <10cm clearance in parts to about 60-70cm. Massively reduced humidity in the house and the “old house smell” is gone.

We had polythene put under most of the house that could be reached, including having some poor day labourers dig out what was practical. It made a big difference to the dampness and smell of the house. We put underfloor insulation in at the same time, which probably helped a bit too.

tweake

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#3046438 6-Mar-2023 19:56

Silvrav:

Nice cold snap in Christchurch and we had the fire going last night.

Works well for the living room and kitchen area, but does not help the bedrooms.

House is insulated but does not have double glazing.

Insulation works ok with outside being 6 last night and inside between 12 and 15 but the wife and kids got cold they say.

Never had success with panel heaters as the wife says they dont work as she doesnt feel the difference.

Looking into infrared panel heaters but they pricy!

Any other suggestions? This will be our first rural, christchurch winter

yeah well 12-15c is lower than what i have the aircon set to. 18c is minimum recommend temp.

for bedrooms, i would just use an oil heater. safer, cheap, quiet. get the big ones. people often install the small panel heaters which are just to small, hence they do not work. infrared heaters is a waste of time as you need to be in front on them not under blankets, and they are a fire risk.

the other thing is decent curtains that go all the way to the floor.

heat transfer kits can work ok if your fireplace puts out excess heat. however they are often not as cheap as they seam as most seam to fail to mention the requirement to install an air return. if your lucky the doors have enough gap, or you could spend heaps installing extra ducts or door vents. failure to install a return could result in death.

tweake

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#3046440 6-Mar-2023 19:59

jonherries:

Ours is very similar, best investment was - by hand on my belly - digging out under the house and putting down polythene. Went from <10cm clearance in parts to about 60-70cm. Massively reduced humidity in the house and the “old house smell” is gone.

Jon

yes that makes a huge difference, especially on older homes with tg floors and floors close to the ground.

farcus

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#3046487 6-Mar-2023 20:16

Silvrav:

Nice cold snap in Christchurch and we had the fire going last night.

Works well for the living room and kitchen area, but does not help the bedrooms.

House is insulated but does not have double glazing.

Insulation works ok with outside being 6 last night and inside between 12 and 15 but the wife and kids got cold they say.

Never had success with panel heaters as the wife says they dont work as she doesnt feel the difference.

Looking into infrared panel heaters but they pricy!

Any other suggestions? This will be our first rural, christchurch winter

Most Cantabrians will still be in T-shirts with the windows open. 😂
Certainly wouldn't consider lighting the fire before late April / May

Wheelbarrow01

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#3046605 6-Mar-2023 22:18

If you're wanting a quick and dirty fix I may have the solution...

When my ULEB fire was installed, it came with a free 3 room heat transfer system (installation not included) - which I have so far totally failed to install.

In the meantime, I have been using a large desk fan setup on the floor in the doorway between the lounge and the hallway facing INTO the lounge.

The idea is that the fan blows cold air from the hallway at floor level into the lounge where it is heated up, whilst hotter air is pushed at face level back down the hallway. I swear it works like a charm. If I'm walking up the hall to the lounge I can feel the breeze of warm air on my face.

It does of course require the bedroom doors to be open for them to receive the heat. Fortunately we have good wall and ceiling insulation so even if we run it in the evenings then close the bedroom doors at bedtime, the bedrooms retain the heat for many hours anyway.

I'm in a 1960's house with double glazing and good extractor fans, but in winter our dehumidifier pulls around 1-2 litres of water out of the air each day. We have it setup in the hallway most of the time, but we'll rotate it through each bedroom one day a week each. It's something I just accept having an older house, but the dehumidifier definitely makes it easier to heat, and it stops (or at least reduces) condensation on those sub-zero Christchurch nights.

timmmay

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#3046621 7-Mar-2023 07:03

Heat transfer only works well when the intake is over a very hot area like a fire. Also note that the diffusers are a hole in the insulation, so when it's not running your house will lose more heat, same situation as ducted heating. With ducted heating I've found it's best to leave it on most of the time.

Oil heaters on timers is another option. They take a while to heat a room but they're silent.

21 degrees is a comfortable indoor temperature. 12 - 15 degrees is asking for illness. We keep the house 21 to 24 degrees all year round.

acetone

181 posts

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#3046670 7-Mar-2023 10:09

I wouldn't bother with a heat transfer for the fire place. Like others have suggested it just doesn't work very well and you are adding holes in the insulation.
I personally run Dimplex panel heaters in the kids rooms to keep them nice and warm at night (digital thermostat and silent). They are not the eco 400w panels that don't do anything. Get the wattage required for your room and away you go.

I put a smart plug on one of them one winter out of interest to see how much it was costing. Running for roughly 12 hours a day it was only costing me an average of 40c each day to keep the room at 18. (The rooms are not very big and I am in Auckland)

https://appliancestar.co.nz/products/dxd4t10

They have coasters if you don't want to mount them to the wall. I do that and take them out of the rooms during summer.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

decibel

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#3047315 8-Mar-2023 12:20

Wheelbarrow01:...In the meantime, I have been using a large desk fan setup on the floor in the doorway between the lounge and the hallway facing INTO the lounge.

The idea is that the fan blows cold air from the hallway at floor level into the lounge where it is heated up, whilst hotter air is pushed at face level back down the hallway. I swear it works like a charm. If I'm walking up the hall to the lounge I can feel the breeze of warm air on my face.

It does of course require the bedroom doors to be open for them to receive the heat. Fortunately we have good wall and ceiling insulation so even if we run it in the evenings then close the bedroom doors at bedtime, the bedrooms retain the heat for many hours anyway....

Isn't this the clue??

People tend to install heat transfer systems that suck hot air out of the room with the fire but then they don't like the cold drafts that then come back in via the door.

I have never had one of these but have been told that you should reverse the system and suck cold air from the bedrooms and blow it into the fireplace room. Then the warmer air will move back to the bedrooms and there will be no draft. (at least, not a cold one)

Has anyone tried this other than @Wheelbarrow01 ?

neb

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#3047533 8-Mar-2023 17:18

Silvrav:
House is insulated but does not have double glazing.

Get serious thermal drapes, properly fitted. Although they only work at night if you want to have light during the day they're more effective than any double glazing.

tweake

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#3047547 8-Mar-2023 17:35

decibel:

Wheelbarrow01:...In the meantime, I have been using a large desk fan setup on the floor in the doorway between the lounge and the hallway facing INTO the lounge.

The idea is that the fan blows cold air from the hallway at floor level into the lounge where it is heated up, whilst hotter air is pushed at face level back down the hallway. I swear it works like a charm. If I'm walking up the hall to the lounge I can feel the breeze of warm air on my face.

It does of course require the bedroom doors to be open for them to receive the heat. Fortunately we have good wall and ceiling insulation so even if we run it in the evenings then close the bedroom doors at bedtime, the bedrooms retain the heat for many hours anyway....

Isn't this the clue??

People tend to install heat transfer systems that suck hot air out of the room with the fire but then they don't like the cold drafts that then come back in via the door.

I have never had one of these but have been told that you should reverse the system and suck cold air from the bedrooms and blow it into the fireplace room. Then the warmer air will move back to the bedrooms and there will be no draft. (at least, not a cold one)

Has anyone tried this other than @Wheelbarrow01 ?

the big problem with doing it that way is your also blowing hot air from the lounge to outside, so your loosing heating. your also sucking a bit of cold outdoor air into the bedroom which is being heated poorly by the fireplace heat. even with proper returns and ducts, your still going to have some air leakage outside. having cold air coming into where the excess heat is (fireplace) is the better option. just don't sit between the door and the intake grill. if your getting drafts elsewhere in the room, fix the house.

i used to use the fan to blow air across the hallway using the same idea as one room had the heat pump. i found it works poorly. it simply takes forever to get enough heating/cooling across.

BlueShift

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#3047897 9-Mar-2023 09:34

tweake:

the big problem with doing it that way is your also blowing hot air from the lounge to outside, so your loosing heating. your also sucking a bit of cold outdoor air into the bedroom which is being heated poorly by the fireplace heat. even with proper returns and ducts, your still going to have some air leakage outside. having cold air coming into where the excess heat is (fireplace) is the better option. just don't sit between the door and the intake grill. if your getting drafts elsewhere in the room, fix the house.

i used to use the fan to blow air across the hallway using the same idea as one room had the heat pump. i found it works poorly. it simply takes forever to get enough heating/cooling across.

Yes, heat is a contrary beast. If you want it to stay in a room, it will seek out every tiny crack and crevice to flee and leave you freezing. But if you want it to transfer from one room to another it will stubbornly ignore the open door and overheat the room its in.

Tick

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#3048022 9-Mar-2023 11:23

Welcome to Christchurch if that's what you meant by first rural Christchurch winter.

As for keeping the bedrooms warmer, before you tunnel into trying to move the fireplace heat into the bedrooms, I would check the roof insulation and ensure it's adequate. The minimum standards are woefully inadequate for most of the South Island and could really do with another layer.

A moisture barrier below the house is the next one if you're on piles. This really helps to reduce the moisture getting into the house and keeping the carpet from that cold feet feel.

The single glazed windows issue can be fixed quite easily in a variety of different ways. Make sure the curtains go from floor to ceiling or make a simple pelmet to go over them. As for the sides, if the window reveal does not stick out far enough to touch the curtains, then you can add a magnetic strip. This of course might not take well with the wife, so my other suggestion would be to get honeycomb blinds and have them installed within the widow frame. They are excellent insulators and prevent airflow, was ranked the highest for helping with heat retention by consumer.org lab testing.

Another couple of suggestions which I do but I doubt your wife would allow is to use bubble wrap on the glass (costed me about $30 in bubble wrap rolls). Made the bedrooms noticeably and measureably warmer. Bunnings also sell 3M plastic sheets to cover them up but this prevents you from opening the windows.

Fan heaters as others have suggested are great for bedrooms, but nothing beats the comfort, price and fun of a fireplace. I would duct it over to the bedrooms with some insulated ducting and throw some large sheets of insulation over them after installation. The amount of heat a fireplace generates blows a heatpump out of the water, and the cost of running is very low

Silvrav

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#3048026 9-Mar-2023 11:28

Tick:

Welcome to Christchurch if that's what you meant by first rural Christchurch winter.

As for keeping the bedrooms warmer, before you tunnel into trying to move the fireplace heat into the bedrooms, I would check the roof insulation and ensure it's adequate. The minimum standards are woefully inadequate for most of the South Island and could really do with another layer.

A moisture barrier below the house is the next one if you're on piles. This really helps to reduce the moisture getting into the house and keeping the carpet from that cold feet feel.

The single glazed windows issue can be fixed quite easily in a variety of different ways. Make sure the curtains go from floor to ceiling or make a simple pelmet to go over them. As for the sides, if the window reveal does not stick out far enough to touch the curtains, then you can add a magnetic strip. This of course might not take well with the wife, so my other suggestion would be to get honeycomb blinds and have them installed within the widow frame. They are excellent insulators and prevent airflow, was ranked the highest for helping with heat retention by consumer.org lab testing.

Another couple of suggestions which I do but I doubt your wife would allow is to use bubble wrap on the glass (costed me about $30 in bubble wrap rolls). Made the bedrooms noticeably and measureably warmer. Bunnings also sell 3M plastic sheets to cover them up but this prevents you from opening the windows.

Fan heaters as others have suggested are great for bedrooms, but nothing beats the comfort, price and fun of a fireplace. I would duct it over to the bedrooms with some insulated ducting and throw some large sheets of insulation over them after installation. The amount of heat a fireplace generates blows a heatpump out of the water, and the cost of running is very low

Thanks Tick! - I peaked into the roof cavity about 2 nights ago and the insulation does look adequate - has a few layers all over the place.

There is also the moisture barrier and insulation under the house (and yes its standing on piles)

I will investigate the blinds as happy wife happy life...lots I can do, but wont please the misses xD

tweake

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#3048245 9-Mar-2023 17:09

Tick:

Welcome to Christchurch if that's what you meant by first rural Christchurch winter.

As for keeping the bedrooms warmer, before you tunnel into trying to move the fireplace heat into the bedrooms, I would check the roof insulation and ensure it's adequate. The minimum standards are woefully inadequate for most of the South Island and could really do with another layer.

to add to that, most people do not realize how under insulated nz homes are especially south island.

for eg its common to have double layer roofing insulation in northland. very common upgrade. thats minimum spec in SI and below 1/2 of whats actually considered good/ok. so if you have two layer now, think about doubling that. that might get you to the new minimum spec thats coming out shortly.

MartinGZ

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#3048453 10-Mar-2023 09:27

We have a fire and heat transfer put when the house was built (Canterbury). I didn't finish the feed into the bedrooms until a few years ago, so have experience of both with and without the transfer system going. Definitely worth it. They take the chill off the bedrooms making it quite comfortable to go to bed, although if I was studying in the back south facing room, I'd probably want a small auxiliary heater.

There are a couple of operational points though. The fan is controlled by a wall thermostat in the lounge where the fire is. Works OKish once you figure out the setpoint. The bedroom doors need to be open a little to provide a return air path. I don't know the air volume of the fan, but it is enough to blow doors shut if they are just cracked open. If you don't provide the return air path, you are just trying to suck in outside air and starve the fire of oxygen.

IMHO, it is worth it and feel no need to put heat pumps in the rest of the house. The house is relatively modern (2006) and built with good levels of insulation.

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