Another table saw thread: B&D this time

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#3055395 27-Mar-2023 13:59

@MikeAqua: Thanks for all that! Yeah, I'd heard over and over that for any saw apart from the really pricey ones the first thing you do is replace the blade and, for table saws, the mitre gauge. The reviews of the Skil pointed out its ability to take a dado stack but the only time I've needed something like that was for trench cuts which I did with the mitre saw, same with pretty much any mitred cuts which I'd do with that. For the bad dust collection, I already haul the mitre saw outside to the patio and run it there (so the neighbours can appreciate the work as well) so it's not a major consideration.

So I'll go for the B&D, I watched some video reviews of the Skil and while the rack&pinion fence is much nicer than the slide-and-clamp style on the B&D and others in its price range I can't really justify paying twice the price just for that. It does look like really good value for money otherwise with lots of nice features but it's still twice the price.

MikeAqua

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#3055416 27-Mar-2023 15:10

neb:

So I'll go for the B&D, I watched some video reviews of the Skil and while the rack&pinion fence is much nicer than the slide-and-clamp style on the B&D and others in its price range I can't really justify paying twice the price just for that. It does look like really good value for money otherwise with lots of nice features but it's still twice the price.

You'll be fine with the fence on the B&D. It clamps from both ends so you can achieve the same accuracy as R&P, just not quite as quickly (it takes a few taps and counter taps).

One thing I forgot to mention with the B&D is that the throat plate is a concave POS that make it difficult to use with narrow parts. That said, it's only an afternoon's work to make a zero clearance insert that is perfectly flush with the cutting surface.

I use mine outside too, with a good dust mask. I run the blower over my clothes/hair before I head back inside (pneumatic shower).

Mike

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#3055419 27-Mar-2023 15:26

neb: It does look like really good value for money otherwise with lots of nice features but it's still twice the price.

That's sort of hard wired into my thinking but every now and then I think of the price Herself paid for a sewing machine then I snap out of it 😀

neb

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#3055776 28-Mar-2023 12:49

MikeAqua:
I've made three upgrades to mine: -

A better Mitre gauge - Hongdui HD-TB01 from Banggood. It's a very accurate and solid mitre gauge
A telescopic mitre fence - EnjoyWood M1 pro from Banggood. Another nice piece of kit.
A 100 tooth, thin kerf ATB crosscut blade (and a decent ripping blade too).

With these upgrades, my skill is the limiting factor, not the saw. I've also bought/made some better pushing accessories.

That's the problem with something like this, you end up spending more on better accessories than the saw itself cost (which was another consideration for not getting the Skil, the initial cost is just the start price before you start adding things). Just a proper blade, if you pay NZ Diablo prices, would be at least a third the cost of the B&D, and then you need a second one for ripping vs. crosscuts because combination blades don't appear to be available in anything other than 1/32nd cubit US arbors.

I was thinking of getting this style of mitre gauge because, apart from the much lower cost it has the quick-set detents which are all I need (30, 45, and 60 degrees are about all I've needed to cut at). Also I'm lazy, one click is easier than spending ten minutes micro-adjusting an exact 45.00 degree fit.

For the fancy-pants push blocks, this style, how do they interact with the riving knife? I've never used that style before but just standard push sticks, it looks like you have to remove some of the safety devices on the saw to use them.

MikeAqua

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#3055821 28-Mar-2023 14:16

Just a proper blade, if you pay NZ Diablo prices, would be at least a third the cost of the B&D, and then you need a second one for ripping vs. crosscuts because combination blades don't appear to be available in anything other than 1/32nd cubit US arbors.

The stock blade that comes with the BD is OK for ripping for outdoor stuff. I wouldn't use it for laminate or indoor furniture.

Shop around. The BD blade has common spec (254mm dia x 30mm arbor). It's possible to get some good deals form reputable sellers on Amazon. Keep an eye on the clearance tables at Bunnings, M10 etc. Linbides in NZ have a good range and are known for quality gear if you need something more specialised. Try this section. I haven't bought a saw blade form them yet.

You can find a review of that Mitre Guage (I think) at Hooked on Wood. I have found the site owner's reviews reliable and he gave it 4.5 stars. You can also see a review for the one I have in the highly recommended category. All his tool reviews are also on his eponymous YouTube channel. It's a great rabbit hole to go down.

I have those and they're really good. The adjustments allow me to avoid the blade and knife, if the blade is set to just higher than the piece you Iam cutting. You do have to take the blade guard off. On the BD table saw you can adjust the lateral position and height of riving knife.

Micro jig in general is very good stuff. I have one their match pro kits which I use for jointing timber, and tapering cuts on my table saw. All up I've probably spent $1,000 in accessories for my $400 table saws. If I'd bought a better saw, I'd have bought the same stuff. One day when I upgrade, all my accessories will transfer across.

Mike

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#3055914 28-Mar-2023 17:03

@cshwone What are your feelings on the DeWalt 7491?

I've borrowed one from a builder friend and was quite impressed with it, though he was a bit more ambivalent (said he would have a cabinet saw if he didn't have to move it around).

I've watched some Youtube reviews and most of the mentioned drawbacks I think I can deal with, though I was a bit more concerned about a couple of reports the table might not be flat.

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#3056032 29-Mar-2023 09:17

mdf:

@cshwone What are your feelings on the DeWalt 7491?

I've borrowed one from a builder friend and was quite impressed with it, though he was a bit more ambivalent (said he would have a cabinet saw if he didn't have to move it around).

I've watched some Youtube reviews and most of the mentioned drawbacks I think I can deal with, though I was a bit more concerned about a couple of reports the table might not be flat.

If I had the space yes a good cabinet saw would be ideal :) However, I have the 7491 plus the DeWalt 74911 stand. This makes it an extremely stable and easy to move around. I do all my table saw work in the open air as my workshop is a bit to cluttered :(. As previously mentioned I use Diablo blades and also have a Dado Stack. Blade swapping is very straightforward. Indeed everything about using the saw is straightforward and accurate. All the standard accessories stack away nicely. I have no issues at all about the table; mine is certainly flat. Ripping is easy from both wide feeds such as halving a sheet of ply to more intricate work such as ripping 5mm hardwood strips for edging I needed.

For mitres and cross cuts I invested in https://www.amazon.com/Incra-MITER1000SE-Miter-Special-Telescoping/dp/B0007UQ2EQ/ref=rvi_sccl_15/133-6180175-4457064?pd_rd_w=zMpZ1&content-id=amzn1.sym.f5690a4d-f2bb-45d9-9d1b-736fee412437&pf_rd_p=f5690a4d-f2bb-45d9-9d1b-736fee412437&pf_rd_r=NBSJYYQCY3D9Y9RHHFY5&pd_rd_wg=YM1Ww&pd_rd_r=7cd49380-1a90-43a2-93b1-22900cbbb179&pd_rd_i=B0007UQ2EQ&psc=1

This gives an extremely snug fit and is very accurate. For example I rattled off 9 picture frames in a weekend with impressive repeatability.

In summary, with the bits I have added it is a pleasure to use. Even SWMBO sees the value in a quality product.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

neb

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#3056120 29-Mar-2023 10:30

MikeAqua: The BD blade has common spec (254mm dia x 30mm arbor). It's possible to get some good deals form reputable sellers on Amazon.

I'd already done that before I got the Saxton, the problem is that most of the blades on Amazon US, and also Amazon AU, have the US 1/32nd cubit arbor. To get 30mm arbor blades you need to go to European suppliers for which the shipping costs as much as, or more than, the blade itself. What's left in NZ for 30mm outside of either really expensive blades or dodgy no-names are Bosch and Makita BluMak, which are a significant step down from Diablo's high-tech blades, but at Diablo (outside NZ) prices.

I haven't had time to check reviews on them yet but at the moment I'm leaning towards the BluMak, in particular I'm now a huge fan of coated blades after the previous experience.

You can find a review of that Mitre Guage (I think) at Hooked on Wood. I have found the site owner's reviews reliable and he gave it 4.5 stars. You can also see a review for the one I have in the highly recommended category. All his tool reviews are also on his eponymous YouTube channel. It's a great rabbit hole to go down.

Yeah, haven't even started on that yet, still getting the saw sorted out. Once I've got that and played with it a bit I'll start researching addons.

Bung

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#3056163 29-Mar-2023 11:43

On my B&D looks like the spindle is 5/8"/16mm with a 30mm x 16mm x ~4mm washer. You aren't restricted to 30mm.

neb

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#3056174 29-Mar-2023 12:10

Bung: On my B&D looks like the spindle is 5/8"/16mm with a 30mm x 16mm x ~4mm washer. You aren't restricted to 30mm.

Hmm, I looked up the specs and it said it was a 30mm bore. So is it a 1/32nd cubit (=5/8") with a bushing on it to take a 30mm-arbor blade?

Also just found this recall notice, which is a bit scary.

MikeAqua

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#3056175 29-Mar-2023 12:17

neb:
Bung: On my B&D looks like the spindle is 5/8"/16mm with a 30mm x 16mm x ~4mm washer. You aren't restricted to 30mm.
Hmm, I looked up the specs and it said it was a 30mm bore. So is it a 1/32nd cubit (=5/8") with a bushing on it to take a 30mm-arbor blade? Also just found this recall notice, which is a bit scary.

Mine takes blades with a 30mm bore.

The blade guard design is now different from that depicted in the recall notice.

Mike

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#3056180 29-Mar-2023 12:28

cshwone:

<snip> (emphasis added)

If I had the space yes a good cabinet saw would be ideal ... In summary, with the bits I have added it is a pleasure to use. Even SWMBO sees the value in a quality product.

Appreciate your thoughts. I'm currenty tossing up between (I think) a top of the line contractor saw versus a basic/introductory cabinet saw. Appreciate nothing will come close to a quality cabinet saw and I would *very* much like a Sawstop or a K3 Hammer. But one of those would also mean I don't get to buy another tool for at least a decade.

If you had the space for it, would you go for a sub $3K cabinet saw or stick with the Dewalt?

Bung

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#3056182 29-Mar-2023 12:30

MikeAqua:
Mine takes blades with a 30mm bore.

The blade guard design is now different from that depicted in the recall notice.

But what determines the bore size, is it a shoulder on the inner clamping washer or a spacing washer like I have?

The recall was easy, they supplied the repair shop with a new style guard and mount. I did the swap and kept the old parts. The Bosch blade kerf is the same as knife so I might thin the old one down even if just take paint off.

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#3056187 29-Mar-2023 12:59

mdf:

cshwone:

<snip> (emphasis added)

If I had the space yes a good cabinet saw would be ideal ... In summary, with the bits I have added it is a pleasure to use. Even SWMBO sees the value in a quality product.

Appreciate your thoughts. I'm currenty tossing up between (I think) a top of the line contractor saw versus a basic/introductory cabinet saw. Appreciate nothing will come close to a quality cabinet saw and I would *very* much like a Sawstop or a K3 Hammer. But one of those would also mean I don't get to buy another tool for at least a decade.

If you had the space for it, would you go for a sub $3K cabinet saw or stick with the Dewalt?

Short answer is that I would stick with the DeWalt. Sawstop is my ideal but for me would be a once in a lifetime purchase and I would still keep my DeWalt.

Here's some images of stuff I have recently built using the DeWalt, dowel and glue. Not a screw anywhere.

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/b83bd8128d95654c72a108268b69708d.jpg

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/21f8e27a9ca59ec204530d9e3eac4957.jpg

neb

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#3056188 29-Mar-2023 13:04

cshwone: Here's some images of stuff I have recently built using the DeWalt, dowel and glue. Not a screw anywhere.

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/b83bd8128d95654c72a108268b69708d.jpg

You deliberately set that shot up to show the Man Cave sign didn't you?

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