Another table saw thread: B&D this time

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neb

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#303981 26-Mar-2023 01:08

There seem to be two price classes for table saws, some cheapies around $300-400 and then a big gap until they start again around $800 and up. Of the cheapies, the Black and Decker seems to be the least bad, in particular the Ryobi and Ozito ones look like ones to avoid from various YT reviews and commentary, and then once you get into the pricey ones you have to go well over the $800 minimum to get much more than the better cheapies offer.

Does anyone have any reason not to go with the B&D out of that lot? I realise there's also a few off-brand types, but I'd prefer to go with a more commonly-used one so it's easier to get accessories if I need them.

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Smpl Mnmlst
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#3054700 26-Mar-2023 01:26

I have used one countless times (a solid old Tanner that belonged to my Dad) but have never bought one - so don’t know anything about various brands. If I was buying one, I’d be looking for one on which the rip fence can be locked at both ends.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

neb

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#3054704 26-Mar-2023 02:41

eracode:
If I was buying one, I’d be looking for one on which the rip fence can be locked at both ends.

That's then getting up into the thousand dollar plus range. I'd like one that had that (and various other features) but can't really justify the cost.

eracode

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#3054706 26-Mar-2023 03:01

Fair enough. A couple of years ago my brother was looking at buying one and I went with him to look at The ToolShed. With the cheaper saws we saw there, if you tightened up the fence at one end (they locked at only one end) then went to the other end and tried waggling that end, they were really quite flimsy and could be easily moved from side to side. If it’s like that, obviously it’s very difficult to do accurate precision work. Depends on what you intend doing with the saw.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

cshwone

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#3054710 26-Mar-2023 06:56

It really depends on your use case. Is it for occasional ripping or do you have projects requiring accuracy. I started off with a cheapy Tooline but have since moved on to a DeWalt. Which is a delight to use. The B&D looks interesting, it appears that you can lock both ends of the fence which is great. I would certainly have a look at it in store for useability.

Whatever saw you go for the mitre is always loose. And you really need a third party mitre gauge to get accuracy.

k1w1k1d

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#3054723 26-Mar-2023 08:51

Have you looked at the new Skil table saw?

Skil Bench Top Saw - Other Saws | Mitre 10™

Bung

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#3054725 26-Mar-2023 09:02

I have one. The fence clamps at both ends but it is a good idea to check that it is parallel, it's not like the Dewalt rack and pinion.
For cross cutting I've made a sled and the results are as accurate as you are 😀. I did put a Bosch blade on that just works with the riving knife as it is thinner than the original blade. If I was doing more ripping I'd work on that. I've suspended a bag and a concrete block under it. The bag catches most of the saw dust that escapes the trough under the blade and the block keeps it more planted.

The money saved went into an older model Makita sliding mitre saw that is a pleasure to use.

eracode

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#3054740 26-Mar-2023 10:39

k1w1k1d:

Have you looked at the new Skil table saw?

Skil Bench Top Saw - Other Saws | Mitre 10™

Looks like a very good saw with great features - eg rack & pinion fence - and not “into the thousand dollar plus range”. No-one ever regrets buying quality tools.

@neb What are you planning to do with the saw?

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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cshwone

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#3054896 26-Mar-2023 14:09

k1w1k1d:

Have you looked at the new Skil table saw?

Skil Bench Top Saw - Other Saws | Mitre 10™

A friend of mine managed to get one of these and is really impressed with it. But I believe they are in short supply.

Additionally, whatever you do swap out the supplied blade for something like Diablo; a good blade can make life a lot easier especially for long rips and accuracy.

neb

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#3055037 26-Mar-2023 21:02

cshwone:
It really depends on your use case. Is it for occasional ripping or do you have projects requiring accuracy. I started off with a cheapy Tooline but have since moved on to a DeWalt. Which is a delight to use. The B&D looks interesting, it appears that you can lock both ends of the fence which is great. I would certainly have a look at it in store for useability.

Something capable of more accurate cuts than the current process of using a mitre saw and clamping blocks to the table to get repeatable cuts, e.g. for sides of a bird feeder or a small bookcase. The single-sided clamping was what ruled out the other less-expensive table saw options, I didn't want a fence that wobbled too much.

The idea was to replace whatever blade it comes with with a good-quality one - I have some Diablo equivalents for the mitre saw brought back from Europe where they're more readily available and cheaper, since a lot of the problems that people report seem to be due to the rubbish blades the saws ship with - and build a sled for precision cuts. So it was mostly just being sick of faffing around trying to make a mitre saw do a table saw's job.

neb

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#3055045 26-Mar-2023 21:13

Definitely swap out the blades, the ones I was referring to are Saxton blades which is essentially Diablo at half to a third the price. What's not mentioned on that page is that, like the Diablo blades, they're Teflon-coated so they don't pick up gunk, I recently cut some gummy timber on the mitre saw and had brown goop on the side of the blade below the teeth, a scrub in warm soapy water left it looking like new, something you could never do with an uncoated blade. And it'll cut finicky stuff like MDF with absolutely no tearout, so I'd rather spend a bit less on the saw and be able to get good-quality blades with the change.

MikeAqua

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#3055173 27-Mar-2023 10:07

I have the B&D table saw. It isn't perfect but it's good enough for making cabinets, chopping board, picture frames, workshop furniture, jigs etc. At 1800w, it's grunty. The measurement guide is accurate to less then 1 mm. My blade was aligned with the mitre tracks out of the box and the fence when tightened sufficiently (it grabs at both ends) is square to the mitre tracks. The stock mitre gauge is a POS. This seems, to be a common complaint across manufacturers. Whatever saw you buy, you'll need to upgrade the blade and mitre gauge for good results.

I've made three upgrades to mine: -

A better Mitre gauge - Hongdui HD-TB01 from Banggood. It's a very accurate and solid mitre gauge
A telescopic mitre fence - EnjoyWood M1 pro from Banggood. Another nice piece of kit.
A 100 tooth, thin kerf ATB crosscut blade (and a decent ripping blade too).

With these upgrades, my skill is the limiting factor, not the saw. I've also bought/made some better pushing accessories.

This saw has three notable limitations:

The arbor length is still too short to accommodate a dado blade stack.
The dust collection is shocking
There is no fine adjustment for the 0deg and 45deg position

Dado stacks are great for cutting dados to inset shelves, lap joints, rabbets for corner joints and tenons for mortice and tenon joints. You can achieve all these things with a regular blade, it just takes longer if you have lot of parts to make. Alternately you can achieve similar results with a router table. Incidentally, you can add router table function to the B&D table saw, by making a drop in piece that sits between the saw top and the extension arm.

Arguably it's a little too light to be perfectly solid. All portable saws seem to have this problem.

If I was buying again, with a limited budget I'd look at either DeWalt 7491 OR Hikoki .

Both can accommodate a dado stack, and
Both have fine adjustment of the max and min main cutting angles.
Both have rack and pinion adjustable fence.
The Dewalt has 200w more than the B&D, the Hikoki 300w less.
IIRC, the Hikoki has the biggest cutting table of the three.

Because I'm building my table saw into a bigger cabinet. I'd probably land on the DeWalt because it has more power.

That Skil unit looks like it's worth checking out too.

Mike

Bung

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#3055201 27-Mar-2023 10:55

This is related to the EU bias against dado stacks.

"The second issue is that rotating machinery needs to stop quickly when power is removed. There are various ways of doing this but the cheap & dirty method is to inject DC into the motor which will stop it pretty much instantly. This is fine & safe with normal saw blades because the mass of the blade is small compared to the mass of the rest of the drive train. Dado blades are multi layer and so have mass which is much larger and the danger is that the increased mass and resulting inertia will undo the blade retaining nut when brought to a sudden stop. This would be a very bad thing and so, quiet sensibly, allowing or requiring a worker to use such a machine would also be unlawful."

I don't know if US market saws have the brake on power off feature. I know my mitre saw has a 2nd microswitch that shorts the armature to stop it quicker.

cshwone

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#3055212 27-Mar-2023 11:22

Bung:

I don't know if US market saws have the brake on power off feature. I know my mitre saw has a 2nd microswitch that shorts the armature to stop it quicker.

DeWalt has both Dado Blades and Insert Plates available as official accessories, so I guess it's not a perceived issue for my 7491.

Bung

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#3055223 27-Mar-2023 11:53

When you stop your 7491 does it coast to a halt or appear to be braked?

cshwone

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#3055233 27-Mar-2023 12:17

It winds down, but fairly quickly rather than coasting.

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