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neb

neb

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  #3063923 15-Apr-2023 16:33
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To provide some context, this is what the street level looks like:

 

 

 

 

The neighbour's driveway is slightly higher and not inline with the flow off the street, difficult to see in the photo, so currently doesn't get anything coming down it. The problem with breaking the flow up too much before it hits the first drain is that some of it will go left, where the sandbags are to prevent it coming down to the house, or possibly right, down the neighbour's driveway. The only thing worse than water coming down the driveway would be water not coming down the driveway.

 

 

The grating itself doesn't cover the entire width, just wide enough to bridge the catchment area for foot traffic, the updated diagram shows it a bit better. The thinking behind having the front slightly elevated was that if it's at the level of the water flow then leaves will get washed onto the top of it and provide an impermeable cover that directs water over the top rather than down into the catchment area.

 

 

The front drain does actually catch some of the flow, it's scoured completely clean each time there's overflow indicating that a fair bit of water goes down there, it's just nowhere near sufficient to catch all of it.



tweake
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  #3063943 15-Apr-2023 17:15
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the simple problem with an elevated grate is grates only flow water from top down, not sideways. yes it may get leaves etc on top, but thats why you have it so big.


mrdrifter
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  #3064068 15-Apr-2023 22:12
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With the design you drew can you pour the concrete with a lip on each side and just inset Marine grating across it? Something like http://www.hiseamarine.com/photos/Picture-of-Marine-Steel-Grating.jpg

Could be easier than a farm stock grate and easier to walk across.
If you made it as wide as required across the catchment area and ~600mm+ wide water would struggle to go across it as long as your drain could then carry the water away from the catchment fast enough.



neb

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  #3064090 15-Apr-2023 23:07
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Yup, that's exactly what I had in mind. Reason for not doing the entire back lip in concrete is that if we ever need to move anything large and/or heavy into or out of the house then, at least in theory, I can unbolt the sleeper so there's not a honkin' big wall across the bottom part of the catchment area. That may be overthinking it a bit though.

blackjack17
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  #3064103 16-Apr-2023 06:54
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Couldn't you just replace the channel drain with something bigger?

 

 

 

https://allproof.co.nz/product/commercial-plastic-channel/

 

this one is 300 by 300





Ge0rge
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  #3064156 16-Apr-2023 08:51
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I still a bit confused at the comment that the council won't do anything about it - it's storm water run off from the road onto your property? Surely that's their problem to deal with, not yours?

If you do have to deal with it though, in line with the comment above about a wider drain, why not put a small cattle stop in? Doesn't have to be the full size, as I don't expect you're trying to keep stock in, but a pit dug and cemented, a decent sized drain at the bottom of it, and galv steel rails over the top that you can walk / drive over. Drop a piece of plywood over it if you need to move heavy appliances with a sack barrow.

  #3064166 16-Apr-2023 09:25
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Ge0rge: I still a bit confused at the comment that the council won't do anything about it - it's storm water run off from the road onto your property? Surely that's their problem to deal with, not yours?

 

you would like to think so but no they don't care. its not their responsibility once its been built so they say.

 

i had to build my garage 450mm off the ground because it crossed an overland flowpath (blue line on a map) which said in a one in a 100 year flood it would get as high as 300mm across my property with water coming from up to 800m away (about 4 hectares of catchment) down the roads over the curb and through my property. 99% of that water was off the road, because either the stormwater covers were blocked with debris/leaves/silt traps that were never removed, or they werent designed for that much water going that fast down the road.

 

with the January flooding i had at least 300mm to go before the water would have got to the bottom of the weather boards on the garage. The neighbour who also build a garage but his didn't touch the magic blue line on a map, was about a cm from having has flooded as his was built at ground level. 


 
 
 

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wellygary
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  #3064171 16-Apr-2023 09:57
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Ge0rge: I still a bit confused at the comment that the council won't do anything about it - it's storm water run off from the road onto your property? Surely that's their problem to deal with, not yours?.

 

 

 

”A duty exists for a lower landowner to accept the natural flow of water from a higher landowner – this has long been recognised as an inherent property right in New Zealand law.“

 

http://stuartryan.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Legal-liability-for-water-escape-and-what-you-can-do-to-avoid-it.pdf

 

Water flows downhill, you are not legally expected to retain it on your property...

 

 

 

 


Bung
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  #3064222 16-Apr-2023 11:11
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There not much that's natural about water coming off a sealed road. It's being collected and directed.
From the PDF "For example, higher landowners cannot tarseal a road and therefore increase the velocity of the natural flow
to the extent that it causes damage to lower land (when no damage occurred before the road was tarsealed).8"



I'd have to check back but isn't the Casa a pole house? Maybe any ground floor had the expectation of water.

duckDecoy
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  #3064224 16-Apr-2023 11:19
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Ge0rge: I still a bit confused at the comment that the council won't do anything about it - it's storm water run off from the road onto your property? Surely that's their problem to deal with, not yours?

 

My friends have a house that has been flooded 7 times from the stormwater drain system not working properly, couple feet of water through their downstairs when it happens.  Apparently flooding a house 7 times isn't sufficient for the council to do anything about it.


neb

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  #3064325 16-Apr-2023 14:09
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wellygary:

”A duty exists for a lower landowner to accept the natural flow of water from a higher landowner – this has long been recognised as an inherent property right in New Zealand law.“

 

 

That's more for general runoff, for an overland flow path the requirements go a lot further, including restricting what you can do in the water path. For Orkland:

 

 

Overland flow paths are protected by a variety of bylaws and planning regulations.

 

 

[...]

 

 

Avoid altering the ground level around an identified overland flow path. There is a ‘GIS viewer’ on the council website if you need help identifying an overland flow path in your area.

 

 

Avoid blocking the path of overland flow at both the upstream and downstream boundaries of your property.

 

 

That's another reason for having the back of the catchment area not entirely done in concrete but with a removable sleeper, if some overzealous council person decides it constitutes blocking the flow I can temporarily remove it to keep them happy. The regs are rather generic, for obvious reasons, so it would depend on someone's interpretation.

 

 

Oh, and since they're always documented for your property in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard', most people will be totally unaware of one on their property unless they do something like needing to get an engineering report done for a rebuild. None of the neighbours we talked to, some of whom have been here since the land was first developed in the 1970s, had ever heard of it.

 

 

Another thing, they're always calculated for a 1 in 100 AEP event, which means they're completely useless for determining actual risk. When we got the engineering report done they did if for the default 1 in 100, it wasn't until the first of the four 1 in 100's we had that year that I realised I should have asked for a 1 in 500 or similar. Given the rate they charge at, it's going to be cheaper to just overengineer everything than to get them to redo it for what we're actually seeing in terms of flooding.

neb

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  #3064326 16-Apr-2023 14:14
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duckDecoy:

My friends have a house that has been flooded 7 times from the stormwater drain system not working properly, couple feet of water through their downstairs when it happens.  Apparently flooding a house 7 times isn't sufficient for the council to do anything about it.

 

 

Let me guess, Auckland council? The only way you can get anything sorted is to do it yourself, at most after a dozen phonecalls over a period of a month or two they may put up some orange caution tape and a sign, but that's about all you'll get.

 

 

I reckon I could replace 90% of the council with a call centre that sometimes records tickets for issues, a couple of people that drive around in conspicuously marked council cars to tell you there's really nothing they can do about it, and several rolls of orange caution tape.

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