Water Leak Nightmare

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Bung

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#3077737 19-May-2023 07:08

itxtme:So with DIY ruled out get on to a building inspector involved.

I googled in Auckland (no idea where you live) But these guys have decent reviews and and the right tools

But honestly I would ring any inspection company with the right tools and explain the issue and ask for a price. Say you want non-invasive moisture readings, thermal camera inspection, and flood test as you need the report to show the exact issue for contractor liability, and so it can be appropriately fixed.

Good luck and keep us posted

I think it's past the time for non-invasive testing using probes. The moisture is evident they need to see where it's coming from. The ceiling already needs painting so a few holes shouldn't make much difference.

Just to add some gratuitous horror stories, years ago I worked with Derek B who'd just had a new house built. Inside a month all his ceilings were wet. Pipe joints were leaking all through the house. Early pipe crimping tools were adjustable and there was a go/no go gauge for the completed joint. All the joints weren't properly done. Somehow they'd passed the pressure test for council inspection before starting to leak. Our neighbours in Wellington had a bathroom done up and 3 months later his basement office was flooded. The drain pipe trap had come off the bath.

itxtme

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#3077748 19-May-2023 08:42

Bung:

I think it's past the time for non-invasive testing using probes. The moisture is evident they need to see where it's coming from. The ceiling already needs painting so a few holes shouldn't make much difference.

Just to add some gratuitous horror stories, years ago I worked with Derek B who'd just had a new house built. Inside a month all his ceilings were wet. Pipe joints were leaking all through the house. Early pipe crimping tools were adjustable and there was a go/no go gauge for the completed joint. All the joints weren't properly done. Somehow they'd passed the pressure test for council inspection before starting to leak. Our neighbours in Wellington had a bathroom done up and 3 months later his basement office was flooded. The drain pipe trap had come off the bath.

I agree 100% with the getting access. It all comes down to what you can see from where the downlight is. If the view is poor I would cut a hole in the ceiling also, but note this is in a room unaffected by the water, so if not required then you would not. The building inspection company will be able to give guidance on this.

In regards to the non-invasive probe testing. They would do this around other areas to find damage that cannot be seen but has occurred, all of the nearby baseboard, plasterboard etc. It would be in conjunction with getting to the bottom of the root cause.

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#3086191 7-Jun-2023 17:46

Insurance has said they will pay for the consequential damage. We need to determine the cause of the issue. Our Plumber said he recommends the tiler does a flood test. I would have thought a plumber would be the best person to do this.

We aren't keen to get the tiler back unless it's a fairly sure thing the issue is on his side, and we are obviously concerned that flood testing will cause additional damage which I am fairly sure the insurance wouldn't help with.

If the issue is with the tiling and work done by the tiler in waterproofing, I think we are obligated to offer him the chance to rectify it, but is it reasonable for us to insist it's checked over independently given the issue occurred?

This is all just a massive headache.

Handle9

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#3086258 7-Jun-2023 18:20

networkn:

Insurance has said they will pay for the consequential damage. We need to determine the cause of the issue. Our Plumber said he recommends the tiler does a flood test. I would have thought a plumber would be the best person to do this.

We aren't keen to get the tiler back unless it's a fairly sure thing the issue is on his side, and we are obviously concerned that flood testing will cause additional damage which I am fairly sure the insurance wouldn't help with.

If the issue is with the tiling and work done by the tiler in waterproofing, I think we are obligated to offer him the chance to rectify it, but is it reasonable for us to insist it's checked over independently given the issue occurred?

This is all just a massive headache.

There's no problem getting someone independent to check the work but it'd likely need to be at your cost. If they are employed by the contractor they are not independent.

Your other option is to request documentation/photos/videos detailing the tests performed.

Bung

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#3086263 7-Jun-2023 18:49

networkn:
If the issue is with the tiling and work done by the tiler in waterproofing, I think we are obligated to offer him the chance to rectify it, but is it reasonable for us to insist it's checked over independently given the issue occurred?

This is all just a massive headache.

The waterproofing is only as good as the seal between it and the outlet drain. The plumber could still be responsible

gzt

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#3086289 7-Jun-2023 20:41

I'd explain the problem to the tiler and explain the damage is covered by insurance. Initially just ask the tiler to inspect. Many problems can be spotted easily by an experienced person without much drama especially after a failure.

I'd try the same with your plumber although he's been a no-show so far maybe knowing the damage insurance is sorted the plumber will be happier starting an inspection.

This could easily take a few rounds. It's just a process can't avoid it.

Imo if the ceiling/walls are still on then a flood test is of limited value. It's probably not going to reveal where the problem is.

Good luck!

Handle9

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#3086301 7-Jun-2023 21:44

gzt:

Imo if the ceiling/walls are still on then a flood test is of limited value. It's probably not going to reveal where the problem is.

A flood test has to be done with the linings and waterproofing on. It's a standard test for waterproofing

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#3086306 7-Jun-2023 22:49

Bung:

The waterproofing is only as good as the seal between it and the outlet drain. The plumber could still be responsible

QFT.

I would not use any of the tradies you have used to date to get to the bottom of the cause. They have every incentive to blame each other and be dishonest. As I stated previously, the plumbers idea to remove a tile to see the cause is dumb, and will most definitely lead to breaking the waterproofing layer.

You should do what I said earlier and involve a building inspection company as its outside of your comfort zone to do yourself. Also you are 100% correct a flood test should have been completed by the person that did the waterproofing. In fact it forms part of council inspection for this type of work. You are living through the reason that this work always requires building consent.

At this point you need to be assertive with the project. Get a direct answer to the cause of the failure as per above. Once you have the report explaining the failure give the tradespeople involved the opportunity to fix it. Realistically this will be removing tile backs to stud and starting again.

If this was a replacement of a current tiled shower you may choose not to get building consent. However if it replaced for example an acrylic shower, you will most definitely want to take this opportunity to fix this and get one done.

gzt

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#3086308 7-Jun-2023 22:55

Handle9:
gzt: Imo if the ceiling/walls are still on then a flood test is of limited value. It's probably not going to reveal where the problem is.
A flood test has to be done with the linings and waterproofing on. It's a standard test for waterproofing

I'm referring to the downstairs area the water discharged into.

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#3086366 8-Jun-2023 08:50

itxtme:

QFT.

I would not use any of the tradies you have used to date to get to the bottom of the cause. They have every incentive to blame each other and be dishonest. As I stated previously, the plumbers idea to remove a tile to see the cause is dumb, and will most definitely lead to breaking the waterproofing layer.

You should do what I said earlier and involve a building inspection company as its outside of your comfort zone to do yourself. Also you are 100% correct a flood test should have been completed by the person that did the waterproofing. In fact it forms part of council inspection for this type of work. You are living through the reason that this work always requires building consent.

At this point you need to be assertive with the project. Get a direct answer to the cause of the failure as per above. Once you have the report explaining the failure give the tradespeople involved the opportunity to fix it. Realistically this will be removing tile backs to stud and starting again.

If this was a replacement of a current tiled shower you may choose not to get building consent. However if it replaced for example an acrylic shower, you will most definitely want to take this opportunity to fix this and get one done.

The 'recent' work done in the shower, was due to an existing tile in our tile shower 'lifting'. (There was no evidence the moisture had spread) In the process of doing that, the tiler damaged the waterproof tray that makes up the base of the shower. A replacement base was ordered, and he installed it according to spec and then tiled on top.

I didn't think to ask for a waterproofing test nor a certificate as I wasn't aware either were either required or weren't done as standard. I believe no consent would have been required for the work done to date, and a consent was sought 15 years ago when the whole bathroom was renovated (as opposed to this minor renovation done more recently). I can't see how a plumber would be liable as there wasn't significant involvement in the recent renovation and what was done wasn't in the shower.

I'll talk to a building inspection company.

networkn

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#3093365 22-Jun-2023 11:03

So an update:

A water flood test was done by someone qualified.

They have found 2 issues:

1) There is a crack in the waste pipe for the ensuite. It has been causing water to collect in the floor between the first and second level. Someone is coming to repair that next week. That was the cause of the leak.

2) There is a small area in one corner of the shower where the waterproofing isn't satisfactory. We are waiting on more information regarding the impact of that. It may be that a repair can be effected. We are reluctant to get the guy who did this job back, but I am not sure what our obligations are around this.

The water damage is likely fairly significant as a result of 1) and so our original SOW for remediation will need to be done again, but looks like we will be out of the house for a few weeks at least.

itxtme

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#3093433 22-Jun-2023 13:31

Nice, good to hear you have clarity and a plan. No doubt the report from the qualified individual will be useful with the insurance company in regards to remediation.

Sadly repairing tiled membrane showers is a bit like urinating into the wind, its possible but fails more often than not. Sounds to me like the original job was not done properly if the tiles became loose in the first place.

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