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tweake
2391 posts

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  #3187745 28-Jan-2024 16:58
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kingdragonfly: Some people have mentioned heat pump hot water already, "HPHW"

HPHW will suck heat from wherever it is, and cause a tiny bit of condensation, so one that's outside can be an advantage; it won't make for a cold basement.

NZ Herald: Element's Guide: Heat Pump Water Heaters
...
An average HPWH is three to four times more efficient than conventional electric water heaters.

Consider that 30% of the average power is dedicated to heating water, and do the maths.
...
In a new build environment, the payback period can be one to three years for a family of four or more. An annual energy saving of $600 to $700 is readily achieved, and can increase by $200 to $300 per additional resident.

In a retrofit environment, where an existing tank needs to be replaced, or the hot water system is being upgraded to mains pressure, the marginal cost is about $800 to $1000, which can provide a payback of 18 months to two years.
...

 

how many house holds these days have more than 4?  not many. 

 

its really only good for large families or those who simply use a lot of hot water. for myself i did a rough work out that the unit would need to be replaced well before it paid for itself in savings.

 

some of the other problems is controlled hot water and looses due to being outside. not to bad if you need to have it outside anyway, cheaper heat to make up for increased losses.  


RunningMan
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  #3187754 28-Jan-2024 17:30
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tweake:

 

how many house holds these days have more than 4?  not many.

 

27.64% have 4 or more at the 2018 census.


tweake
2391 posts

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  #3187791 28-Jan-2024 19:33
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RunningMan:

 

tweake:

 

how many house holds these days have more than 4?  not many.

 

27.64% have 4 or more at the 2018 census.

 

 

well MORE than 4, which is what i asked, is 12.04% as per graph linked. however, even with 4 people per household, thats not just family, thats people living together. (people are not having many kids these days) those who have large households for cost reasons are unlikely to buy such expensive items and are probably renting anyway. so realistically the pool of buyers who can afford it and have large enough household to warrant it, is actually really low.


shrub
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  #3187810 28-Jan-2024 22:11
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Did mine last year. Only thing I needed was a concrete pad for it to sit on. Took a Saturday arvo to sort that.
I went with a 380L mains pressure unit. It's great to clear space in the kitchen.
Cost $4100 for everything.

BlargHonk
147 posts

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  #3187911 29-Jan-2024 07:41
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Anyone installed an outdoor Cylinder down in Chch or below? How do they cope with the cold winters?


kingdragonfly
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  #3187967 29-Jan-2024 08:40
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tweake: for myself i did a rough work out that the unit would need to be replaced well before it paid for itself in savings.


some of the other problems is controlled hot water and looses due to being outside. not to bad if you need to have it outside anyway, cheaper heat to make up for increased losses.  



Anything that pays for itself eventually I'd consider a good investment, if you got the cash. A typical hot water cylinder should last 8 to 12 years.

Even a single person household should eventually pay for itself before the end of life cycle.

As far as heat losses, the cylinders are very well insulated, and we're usually not talking about lots of snowy days usually.

Note many people miss there's a Sacrificial Anode that needs to be periodically replaced every 3 to 5 years.

tweake
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  #3188014 29-Jan-2024 11:27
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by mem i think it was going to take 15 years minimum. then there is the question of controlled hot water.

 

i have not seen any manufacture actually say what the insulation spec is. at best it "meets standards". thats usually sales speak for bare minimum we can get away with. an interior one has insulation, then its insulated by the house. eg it might have 25mm insulation on the tank then 90mm insulation via the walls/roof etc. in my case i also have the hot water cupboard which is fairly warm. i've yet to see any pics of outdoor tanks with big thick insulation. 


kingdragonfly
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  #3188106 29-Jan-2024 14:20
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Somewhat of a long video, from the States, talking about heat pump water heaters in cold climates.

From the video

"So I live in Ohio where we have a pretty varying climate.

It's pretty cold in the winter where January lows are around -7 C (below zero) and pretty warm in the Summer where July highs might be around 30 C maybe sometimes 32 and it is humid in the summer. Not so much in the winter

So in our house we have three people and each of us takes a shower bath in the evening so our evening demand is pretty high and not so much for the rest of the day.

The incoming cold water temperature and that's a key factor something you may want to check at your house to know what it is before you install one there our incoming cold water temperature here can get as low as about 7 C.

So any water heater regardless of how it's powered has a big hill to climb in the winter to bring that water up to a comfortable temperature for you.

So the other important thing to know is I have set all the heat pump water here as I've owned to a setting of 60 C"


Lias
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  #3188495 30-Jan-2024 17:13
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Just to piggyback the hot water cylinder knowledge in this thread. I've also toyed with doing this, but I don't really want to go with an cylinder. Continuous flow electric doesn't seem to be a thing so is going from LP 180L internal to an external continuous flow gas system with 45kg LPG tanks a non silly idea?





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tweake
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  #3188500 30-Jan-2024 17:25
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gas units work ok. just have to be careful with them freezing in cold areas. the other issue is they can take longer to get hot water because its mounted outside and often away from the kitchen etc. tho you can do loop systems on big houses. the great thing is you can get big outputs rather easily. we have one at work, just a domestic model and its rated at 25kw. but outdoor temps do play a factor.


  #3188551 30-Jan-2024 17:43
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unless you have piped gas i dont think its a good idea, the price of bottled gas already makes it hard to justify installing it compared to other systems, but thats only going to go up more so than electricity.

 

 


lapimate
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  #3188557 30-Jan-2024 17:56
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kingdragonfly:..Note many people miss there's a Sacrificial Anode that needs to be periodically replaced every 3 to 5 years.

Only applicable to VE tanks not stainless steel tanks I believe.


kingdragonfly
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  #3188614 30-Jan-2024 18:26
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lapimate:

kingdragonfly:..Note many people miss there's a Sacrificial Anode that needs to be periodically replaced every 3 to 5 years.

Only applicable to VE tanks not stainless steel tanks I believe.



You are correct. Unlike glass lined water tanks, stainless steel tanks do not need a sacrificial anode in order to prevent corrosion on its surface.

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