Need some help with a Huawei three phase solar inverter and battery

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Need some help with a Huawei three phase solar inverter and battery - reporting all up the wazzoo

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32 posts

Geek

#3197658 19-Feb-2024 20:22

Ge0rge: 21 panels @ 390W each gives you 8.19kW - that's your max gen from the panels .

6kW is how much your inverter can produce.

Systems are often set up with more panel capacity than the inverter can produce to help out in winter, cloudy days etc. The inverter will "clip" in mid summer, but produce more in winter than if you only had 6kw of panels - you'd barely ever max the inverter.

Okay yeah that makes total sense. So it seems like that's okay then, and I can probably rest easy that this is not a major issue. Phew. Agree probably better to have the chance to generate a bit more in the winter.

naturalhighNZ

32 posts

Geek

#3197660 19-Feb-2024 20:25

SomeoneSomewhere: The inverter is definitely measuring all three phases, but as you can see it's aggregating the values for power whereas the metering code requires the revenue meter to consider them separately.

6.6kW inverter and 8kW of panels is a slight over-panel situation, but IMHO this is not bad. It's just not a very big system and much of the cost is in the battery.

If you can get half-hour CSVs out of the power company, we might be able to tell you how much you're losing by paying to export and reimport.

Roger - I'll try and get the half hourly CSV. Hopefully Powershop are happy to accommodate and then share the outcome of this. I'll try nab this tomorrow morning. The company who installed have suggested that the issue of not being able to see data across the three phases, and thus the under reporting, is an issue with Huawei that they weren't fully aware of themselves it seems. My thought is the reporting and in particular accurate reporting has some inherent value and I probably want to work out / or have them come to me with a bit of a plan. I don't feel the whole thing is a stuff up, it's not, but I have been surprised / disappointed at various points trying to understand what is going on.

Ge0rge

2052 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3197664 19-Feb-2024 20:32

Follow this link, hit the "track your usage" topic, and read down until you see the bit about half hour usage. Download the CSV from your powershop desktop site.

eonsim

398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3197666 19-Feb-2024 20:57

Agree with the others 8kWp on a 6.6kW inverter is okay, and will really help during autumn/winter/spring and during crappy weather. The 5kW battery is maybe a little small, but seems reasonable for the price, the bigger 10kW ones would likely have cost $16k without the solar. The system sounds reasonable, it's just the three phase nature is complicating things a bit and it may take a bit of work to get the most out of the system.

BTW if you have a Home assistant setup you maybe able to use it to collect all the energy data from the inverter and present it in a more usable form with this extension: https://github.com/wlcrs/huawei_solar

naturalhighNZ

32 posts

Geek

#3197668 19-Feb-2024 21:06

Thanks for the Home Assistant plug. I've got a mate who is really into it, but I never really understood the self hosting aspect and how to really set that up without having a PC running 24/7 in the house. I should look into it though as I have lots of smart devices and a shit tonne of different smart device apps to try and use it all. But thanks also for the assurance around the system - tbh I knew the battery was going to cost me, but I got it post cyclone Gabrielle. We had such a long period without power, I mainly got it for resilience.

I paid 31k all up for the system; panels; battery and back up power system.

Here's my powershop half hourly data... not at all sure what I am looking at here. This is for the same date as the other images I posted up.

HDR ICPCONS PSNZ PSNZ 19/02/2024 96 17/02/2024 17/02/2024
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 00:00:01 17/02/2024 00:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 00:00:01 17/02/2024 00:30:00 RD 2.22
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 00:30:01 17/02/2024 01:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 00:30:01 17/02/2024 01:00:00 RD 1.93
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 01:00:01 17/02/2024 01:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 01:00:01 17/02/2024 01:30:00 RD 1.94
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 01:30:01 17/02/2024 02:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 01:30:01 17/02/2024 02:00:00 RD 1.2
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 02:00:01 17/02/2024 02:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 02:00:01 17/02/2024 02:30:00 RD 0.22
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 02:30:01 17/02/2024 03:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 02:30:01 17/02/2024 03:00:00 RD 0.17
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 03:00:01 17/02/2024 03:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 03:00:01 17/02/2024 03:30:00 RD 0.16
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 03:30:01 17/02/2024 04:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 03:30:01 17/02/2024 04:00:00 RD 0.18
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 04:00:01 17/02/2024 04:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 04:00:01 17/02/2024 04:30:00 RD 1.41
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 04:30:01 17/02/2024 05:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 04:30:01 17/02/2024 05:00:00 RD 1.39
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 05:00:01 17/02/2024 05:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 05:00:01 17/02/2024 05:30:00 RD 1.37
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 05:30:01 17/02/2024 06:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 05:30:01 17/02/2024 06:00:00 RD 0.96
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 06:00:01 17/02/2024 06:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 06:00:01 17/02/2024 06:30:00 RD 0.18
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 06:30:01 17/02/2024 07:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 06:30:01 17/02/2024 07:00:00 RD 0.19
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 07:00:01 17/02/2024 07:30:00 RD 0.08
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 07:00:01 17/02/2024 07:30:00 RD 0.11
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 07:30:01 17/02/2024 08:00:00 RD 0.09
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 07:30:01 17/02/2024 08:00:00 RD 0.1
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 08:00:01 17/02/2024 08:30:00 RD 0.21
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 08:00:01 17/02/2024 08:30:00 RD 0.15
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 08:30:01 17/02/2024 09:00:00 RD 0.2
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 08:30:01 17/02/2024 09:00:00 RD 0.18
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 09:00:01 17/02/2024 09:30:00 RD 0.63
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 09:00:01 17/02/2024 09:30:00 RD 0.1
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 09:30:01 17/02/2024 10:00:00 RD 0.48
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 09:30:01 17/02/2024 10:00:00 RD 0.09
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 10:00:01 17/02/2024 10:30:00 RD 0.79
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 10:00:01 17/02/2024 10:30:00 RD 0.36
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 10:30:01 17/02/2024 11:00:00 RD 1.6
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 10:30:01 17/02/2024 11:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 11:00:01 17/02/2024 11:30:00 RD 2.15
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 11:00:01 17/02/2024 11:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 11:30:01 17/02/2024 12:00:00 RD 2.99
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 11:30:01 17/02/2024 12:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 12:00:01 17/02/2024 12:30:00 RD 2.93
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 12:00:01 17/02/2024 12:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 12:30:01 17/02/2024 13:00:00 RD 2.83
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 12:30:01 17/02/2024 13:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 13:00:01 17/02/2024 13:30:00 RD 2.74
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 13:00:01 17/02/2024 13:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 13:30:01 17/02/2024 14:00:00 RD 2.08
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 13:30:01 17/02/2024 14:00:00 RD 0.14
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 14:00:01 17/02/2024 14:30:00 RD 2.13
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 14:00:01 17/02/2024 14:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 14:30:01 17/02/2024 15:00:00 RD 1.43
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 14:30:01 17/02/2024 15:00:00 RD 0.03
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 15:00:01 17/02/2024 15:30:00 RD 1.69
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 15:00:01 17/02/2024 15:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 15:30:01 17/02/2024 16:00:00 RD 1.51
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 15:30:01 17/02/2024 16:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 16:00:01 17/02/2024 16:30:00 RD 1.84
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 16:00:01 17/02/2024 16:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 16:30:01 17/02/2024 17:00:00 RD 2.03
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 16:30:01 17/02/2024 17:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 17:00:01 17/02/2024 17:30:00 RD 0.89
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 17:00:01 17/02/2024 17:30:00 RD 0.98
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 17:30:01 17/02/2024 18:00:00 RD 0.76
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 17:30:01 17/02/2024 18:00:00 RD 0.93
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 18:00:01 17/02/2024 18:30:00 RD 0.58
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 18:00:01 17/02/2024 18:30:00 RD 0.63
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 18:30:01 17/02/2024 19:00:00 RD 0.53
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 18:30:01 17/02/2024 19:00:00 RD 0.55
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 19:00:01 17/02/2024 19:30:00 RD 0.19
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 19:00:01 17/02/2024 19:30:00 RD 0.75
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 19:30:01 17/02/2024 20:00:00 RD 0.01
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 19:30:01 17/02/2024 20:00:00 RD 0.26
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 20:00:01 17/02/2024 20:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 20:00:01 17/02/2024 20:30:00 RD 0.24
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 20:30:01 17/02/2024 21:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 20:30:01 17/02/2024 21:00:00 RD 0.66
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 21:00:01 17/02/2024 21:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 21:00:01 17/02/2024 21:30:00 RD 0.39
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 21:30:01 17/02/2024 22:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 21:30:01 17/02/2024 22:00:00 RD 0.32
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 22:00:01 17/02/2024 22:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 22:00:01 17/02/2024 22:30:00 RD 2.23
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 22:30:01 17/02/2024 23:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 22:30:01 17/02/2024 23:00:00 RD 2.23
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 23:00:01 17/02/2024 23:30:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 23:00:01 17/02/2024 23:30:00 RD 2.05
DET 0 I EG 24 17/02/2024 23:30:01 18/02/2024 00:00:00 RD 0
DET 0 X UN 24 17/02/2024 23:30:01 18/02/2024 00:00:00 RD 1.07

eonsim

398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3197670 19-Feb-2024 21:11

The home assistant extension page also covers some of the funkiness that the inverter uses to calculate the daily solar yield. Seems it mixes battery energy use with solar energy use which is a bit strange the following link explains it a bit more at the top of the page and may help explain why it's difficult to work out exactly what's going on with it:

https://github.com/wlcrs/huawei_solar/wiki/Daily-Solar-Yield

naturalhighNZ

32 posts

Geek

#3197682 19-Feb-2024 22:07

eonsim:

The home assistant extension page also covers some of the funkiness that the inverter uses to calculate the daily solar yield. Seems it mixes battery energy use with solar energy use which is a bit strange the following link explains it a bit more at the top of the page and may help explain why it's difficult to work out exactly what's going on with it:

https://github.com/wlcrs/huawei_solar/wiki/Daily-Solar-Yield

Sort of understand the problem, completely lost on what a home assistant extension is - I assume I can add functionality to Home Assistant. I'm just looking into the best way to get this setup - a shame I probably need to buy a Raspberry Pi or a Home Assistant Green but imagine in the long-term this would be good if I can generate my own reports and eliminate the disadvantages I am getting with the reporting from Huawei.

Equinox IT

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CrazyM

110 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#3197683 19-Feb-2024 22:25

I run a very similar system, 12.3kW of panels with a 10kW 3 phase Huawei inverter, but no battery. I’m also with Powershop as you are

It seems like your system is working as intended and the inverter to panel ratio is well designed. I don’t think Huawei do a hybrid inverter that is bigger than 6kW but things might have changed.

You have correctly identified the issue of 3 phase solar in NZ. With the inverter evenly distributing generated power down all 3 phases and how our metering is setup you will never get the same solar utilisation as a single phase system, but then again you also have the advantages of 3 phase to your house for large appliances and EV chargers.

As others have mentioned if you had a Goodwe ET or a Solax X3 inverter they can have an amount of unbalanced output which helps with more utilisation, or you could change you whole setup to a single phase, or you could get the metering legislation changed in NZ to match the rest of the world and that also comes with the bonus that I would buy you a drink 👍

Personally I think your system is fine (but I would say that because I had the same thoughts and ended up with your system) 😁

I also think your metering is accurate, the Powershop number will be accurate to your consumption meters. But the FusionSolar app will be displaying the loads as an aggregate over the 3 phases like it should in every other country, except NZ.

You should also be able to check the loads on each phase through the app or the web interface. Go to Devices-Inverter-Connected Devices-Power Sensor-Historical Info and then you can see the phases plotted like below

naturalhighNZ

32 posts

Geek

#3197710 20-Feb-2024 08:12

Thanks for reaffirming the system is okay. I think that's where I am at now which is good.

I don't have the Power Sensor option on mine! So i wonder if that is something they could add to improve reporting?

In saying that, my issue and probably dispute remains about how energy use is reported in the app and that they should have been upfront about this a lot earlier on in the piece. Especially when there are other options out there (inverters etc)

SteveXNZ

59 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3197831 20-Feb-2024 11:46

Hi naturalhighNZ

I sympathise with your predicament. I similarly have a 3-phase inverter (AlphaESS Smile-T10-HV) with batteries and for a long time was struggling with understanding exactly how the system worked, how it was metered, and how I was being billed.

I first twigged to a problem shortly after my system was installed. For a few weeks I was on “net metering” on my old meter, and I was delighted at how low my Electric Kiwi (EK) peak hour grid consumption was as I’d programmed my inverter to not draw from the grid over peak times. Then EK swapped out my old meter for an import/export meter (ie no longer on “net metering”) and my peak consumption shot up four-fold. How could that be? EK couldn’t explain, and it took a lot of investigation (and reading Geekzone posts) to understand that I was being billed at 40c/unit for imported energy and paid 14c/unit for exported energy across the phases within the same time period, even though my net grid draw was zero. I’ve since worked out this is costing me around $500 per year.

I needed data to understand the per-phase power flows. Neither EK nor the metering company could provide 3-phase stats, and AlphaCloud only provided amalgamated stats, not per-phase. However noting that I had a DTSU666 solar meter in my switchboard, and CT clamps on each of the three phase wires I knew the data was being measured. Sure enough, my installer (Solar Group) acknowledged they had access to the 3-phase data, and on request could provide me with a CSV file. A good start, but of course I needed more.

More research led me to discover that the wired interface to my inverter was listening on Modbus port 502/tcp. A Home Assistant integration finally allowed me access to the Modbus registers, so I now have dynamic access to the power flows on each phase. Here’s what was happening over last night’s peak hour when my battery was supplying the house load:

Negative numbers are export, so while my net grid power is close to zero, I’m actually drawing 242W on L2 while exporting (from the battery) equivalent power on L1 & L3. And the phase differentials can go quite high – over 1,000W on occasion depending on loads.

I’m actually in dispute with EK on this one, and am working with Utilities Disputes Ltd to get resolution on the following points:
- Justification of EK’s 3-phase billing model
- Access to the 3-phase stats from my meter
- Clarity of their 3-phase billing model on their website.

Failing that, the next step is the Commerce Commission, as I believe EK are currently in breach of the Fair Trading Act.

So good luck in using whatever tools are available to you to understand how your system works. If like me you’re unhappy with billing and data from your retailer, complain and get answers.

Note that I don’t have an issue switching from net metering to import/export metering. It’s entirely reasonable that metering companies, lines companies, Transpower, the Electricity Authority, retailers (and certainly the consumer) have access to the import/export data by phase. My issue is the algorithm retailers use within their billing engines, and its disclosure. Initial research suggests EK and Octopus use the same flawed billing model. Not sure of other retailers who do Time Of Use (TOU) billing.

If you agree with my position, please make your complaint too! To my mind, we should pay a daily charge for grid connectivity/services and a net energy charge/credit within a particular TOU period, irrespective of whether we’re a single or 3-phase customer.

naturalhighNZ

32 posts

Geek

#3197996 20-Feb-2024 17:28

Wow what a journey that must've been. I do feel like there are some real similarities. My meter was switched early on so I don't really have the benefit of understanding the true impact of having an import / export metre or not. What I would be interested in is a bit more detail on the actual issue you have with EK's billing here, and how this is the cause for the issue you are having? I'd be interested to know if Powershop use the same system, and would be happy to join you in a dispute if there is an issue here. Ultimately I agree - it is completely unfair that three phase customers are punished - but I have no real ability to put that into words, as I simply lack the technical know how to do this.

For now I am seeking to understand the issues around monitoring and what can be done to remedy this; and the impact on me in terms of cost. I speculate it's probably costing me a minimum of $50.00 a month but would need to quantify this somehow to raise a dispute with the disputes tribunal if I chose to. For now I'd like to allow the installer to come to the party and hopefully make good on what they are acknowledging has been to some degree their mistake for not informing me more.

naturalhighNZ

32 posts

Geek

#3197997 20-Feb-2024 17:34

In saying that I've just found this in monitoring.... by the look of it phase A is importing (negative); and phase B and C are exporting. Am I reading this right?

SomeoneSomewhere

1802 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3198003 20-Feb-2024 17:58

I would expect the opposite; negative is typically export, but it's not totally standardised.

The trick will be to observe it when you know all three phases will be importing or all exporting, and see what the sign is then.

naturalhighNZ

32 posts

Geek

#3198008 20-Feb-2024 18:12

I was just going by the commentate the top referencing export as a positive value. But yes good idea. I really need this information but historical and over time.

naturalhighNZ

32 posts

Geek

#3198012 20-Feb-2024 18:25

I was able to pull this out - how useful is this and what can I take away from it?

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