New Build: Advice for Power and Data Cabling

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90 posts

Master Geek

#3368267 28-Apr-2025 13:22

trig42:

EV(s) - don't run 16A, run 32A. Allows you to at least put a 7kW charger in. EV batteries aren't getting any smaller and charging a big EV battery on 16A will be painful.

Any chance you can get 3-phase power in?

Oh, we're definitely doing 32A - that's on the left side of the garage. The 16A is additional to that. We've been a two EV family for the last five years or so and we've never (literally not even once) had a problem with our current pair of 16A EVSE's, so the upgrade to 32A + 16A will be already be significant for us. The question seems to be whether we need a special RCBO or not.

Twincamr2

90 posts

Master Geek

#3368277 28-Apr-2025 13:26

tweake:

also nothing on their for powering the heat pump and hot water. outdoor hot water is that gas or heat pump?

whats your HVAC plan? i only see one spot for a heat pump indoor unit listed and its in a weird spot. ducted? ventilation? need power outlets for that as well.

Yeah, it's only a provisional plan - there will be more detail added once the locations of things are nailed down.

HVAC is minimal - it's a (mostly) passive house and will not need significant heating or cooling. That upstairs heat pump is all there is, and is for comfort at night.

SirHumphreyAppleby

2847 posts

Uber Geek

#3368279 28-Apr-2025 13:36

toejam316:

SMF you'll push 100Gbit pretty easily

I think we're in the minority with considering single mode fibre being the best option. I am very tempted to press Buy Now on a fibre splicer. The costs are similar to Cat6, particularly when you factor in the cost savings of SFP+ over RJ45 connected 10Gbs^-1 gear. You lose PoE, but while I used that extensively in the past to power CoreELEC boxes connected to televisions, I've gone back to using it only for IP cameras, access points and nodes on the roof.

siyuan

189 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3368281 28-Apr-2025 13:43

An ethernet run to the front door for a wired doorbell camera if that's your thing.
Consider ethernet runs (or conduits for future) to potential locations for outdoor WAP if you have a big back yard. Also if you have a gate, consider smart controls, which may or may not require an ethernet run.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3368282 28-Apr-2025 13:44

Twincamr2:

Yeah, it's only a provisional plan - there will be more detail added once the locations of things are nailed down.

HVAC is minimal - it's a (mostly) passive house and will not need significant heating or cooling. That upstairs heat pump is all there is, and is for comfort at night.

thats right up my alley.

what part of the country are you in?

what are you doing for air movement? its not just about heating or cooling loads but where they are. getting solar gains done right per room is very difficult and expensive, and it sounds like your not going full hog on it. with a not quite fully done setup you could very easily end up with one side of the house hot and the other cold. especially with no air movement through the house to balance it out. more so with double story houses.

i would advise putting a system in through out the house, even if its not to heat cool but to clean the air and to move the air around. if your using mini splits then you should have ceiling fans for air movement.

Twincamr2

90 posts

Master Geek

#3368324 28-Apr-2025 15:58

Scott3:

Incoming:

Fairly big decision on this one.

60A vs 100A
Single phase vs 3 phase. (2 phase also offered by some lines companies)
Look into what your local lines company offers, and if the higher capacity options result in a massive upfront for monthly charge.

If viable I would be choosing between 100A single phase and 60A or 100A 3 phase, and personally would lean to the latter for a two EV, all electric home.

3 phase power has some big advantages - able to charge EV's at 12kW, rather than 7kW, supports 3 phase equipment, generally a larger amount of solar injection is allowed... But can be a bit of a chore when it comes to solar and battery backup setups, as load does not allays balance generation.

Circuit board:

Ensure it has a decent number of free slots in it
It is located somewhere you can get future wires in / out (if not have a few bits of conduit put in.
Consider having a whole house surge protector added - not super common in NZ, but I had one added when my circuit board was replaced in my house
Standard in NZ is to have a RCD for every 3 circuits, If you want to reduce the odds and impact of nuisance tripping (and save some space on the board), you could specify and RCBO for every circuit, but this will cost ~$1000 extra, so I didn't end up with that in the end.
Could consider a dedicated circuit for your fridge / freezer, or anything else critical (data rack?), to reduce the odds of being tripped by another load.
Check the location is somewhere aesthetically acceptable.
Cooking:

Go induction cooktop, really worth the extra cost over ceramic - note the electrical draw can be as high as 48A (can be shared around 3 phase if you have that). - Note induction cooktops have minimum ventilation clearances, might want to check the kitchen builder follows these or you will have a short appliance life
Get a good range hood that is ducted outside. Ideally one size up from the cooktop (i.e. 120cm range hood over a 90cm cooktop.
My dream kitchen would have dual ovens (ideally one of which is a steam oven) - but would need a big kitchen for this to make sense.
I was going to recommend a lot of outlets in this area, but looks like you are already on top of this.
Consider if you want under cabinet lighting, or lighting in the pantry.

Wow, thanks @scott3! I'll break up my responses for ease of reading.

I haven't looked into changing the power (or any services) coming in - I believe it's 63A to the house we're knocking down. Not sure if it'd be cost effective to change. Definitely sticking to single phase though. No interest in charging EV's that fast.

Interesting ideas on the breaker/dist board. Will take those into consideration. Have never had any nuisance tripping.

Induction is a must, hoping to do downdraft extraction if we can find one at a good price. We've used it for the last ~10 years and would struggle to go back to a rangehood. Along with that, we've had the luxury of a 75 cm oven, but they're also hard to find at a reasonable cost.

Yes, under cabinet lighting is on the cards.

Twincamr2

90 posts

Master Geek

#3368327 28-Apr-2025 16:02

Goosey:

lights - is that enough for outside? (Front door, and driveway/above garage door), back door and back deck?

Is that ventilation duct in the back patio area sucking or blowing? (Might be an issue when ya smoking the bbq or sitting there getting a waft of bad air from the bathroom).

power, is there enough in the hall ways and other areas to pull the vacuum cleaner along?
have you got an outdoor power outlet for the back patio? Also is there an outlet inside near the front of the garage (driveway end).

for the kitchen area, it wouldn’t be silly to have a light of sorts on or near the splash back… that way you can switch this on and off without having all the lights on if you are just needing tad a of light to duck into the kitchen or just generally see at night without having to have a stadium lit up.

Yep, could do with some more light at the front.

The vent over the rear deck is intake I'm pretty sure, but barbecuing would be done on the front patio. I think the rear deck might get 86'd before we finish the process. It's south facing, overshadowed by the neighbour's house and cold there.

Good point about the kitchen lighting. Planning to have under cabinet lights over the cooktop.

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Twincamr2

90 posts

Master Geek

#3368330 28-Apr-2025 16:11

tweake:

get lines power upgrade if you can, that might be a big IF. however single phase might be easier with solar systems exporting.

surge protection at the fuse board is good. lightning diverter at the meter board is better.

don't go having a ventilation inlet above the outdoor area as you will make the whole house smell like bbq etc. also consider how are you going to run the ducts. trying to get duct work inbetween the ceiling and floor is going to be difficult. especially if you have drainage plumbing nearby which takes priority. also where is the equipment going to be. very common problem is designers don't design for the duct work etc and you end up with a hack job system that doesn't work properly.

+1 on the oversized range hood.

inline fans are great but you need access to them.

be careful with putting in chases for future wiring etc. they become ducts for air flow. they need to be sealed (spray foam the ends) and thats commonly overlooked.

internal garage. remember the garage is outside the house. use a sealed internal door. make sure the bedroom floor and internal walls are well sealed and insulated.

there won't be any bbq'ing out the back thankfully, but the point is well made. Will consider if the location is correct. There's a full spec for the ventilation ductwork. The architect is very experienced with them. Zehnder Q350 inside the back door. I'll be running the ducting (and all the low voltage cabling) myself, so we're guaranteed a hack job! :)

Haven't thought about surge and lightning protection. Good ideas. Not really in a high lightning risk area.

Yep, was thinking about the wiring duct, especially where it goes from unconditioned to conditioned. Was considering a rubber bung.

Garage door - yes, the internal door is an external door :)

All joinery is PVC.

Twincamr2

90 posts

Master Geek

#3368331 28-Apr-2025 16:14

wellygary:

Not data/power related, but

The first thing that jumps out at me is you have a bedroom right behind the kitchen (bench, hobs- and presumably extractor)

I am assuming you are sound rating/insulating this wall?

-Otherwise running the extractor fam and banging pots could be annoying to anyone asleep in the rear bedroom?

Fair point, but that will function as office and occasional guest b/room. So no noise worries there really - more likely the other way round as I'll have my guitars in there. So... sound insulation might be needed after all.

Twincamr2

90 posts

Master Geek

#3368332 28-Apr-2025 16:18

toejam316:

I haven't really looked in depth, but my advice for these days - anywhere you're running data, run single mode fibre in parallel. Copper, you'll push 10Gbit at most, and it's a pain to get that in place.

SMF you'll push 100Gbit pretty easily, so if you ever find yourself lacking in bandwidth you have options. There's also a lot more applications for x-over-fibre than x-over-Ethernet.

Interesting idea, but although I like to mess around with it, we don't really do a lot of bandwidth/speed-intensive stuff. I get that it's future-proofing, but you have to draw the line somewhere. And in this case the line might be drawn at a drawline.

Twincamr2

90 posts

Master Geek

#3368336 28-Apr-2025 16:22

SirHumphreyAppleby:

I think we're in the minority with considering single mode fibre being the best option. I am very tempted to press Buy Now on a fibre splicer. The costs are similar to Cat6, particularly when you factor in the cost savings of SFP+ over RJ45 connected 10Gbs^-1 gear. You lose PoE, but while I used that extensively in the past to power CoreELEC boxes connected to televisions, I've gone back to using it only for IP cameras, access points and nodes on the roof.

Just had a look and a spool of 300 m fibre is four times the cost of CAT6. I just don't think it's necessary at this point. Most of my current network runs at 100 mbit/s. Don't revoke my card please!

Twincamr2

90 posts

Master Geek

#3368337 28-Apr-2025 16:24

siyuan:

An ethernet run to the front door for a wired doorbell camera if that's your thing.
Consider ethernet runs (or conduits for future) to potential locations for outdoor WAP if you have a big back yard. Also if you have a gate, consider smart controls, which may or may not require an ethernet run.

doorbell cam is definitely not my thing. :) We also (happily) have a tiny back yard that should soon be covered in as much native bush as we can jam in .

Twincamr2

90 posts

Master Geek

#3368339 28-Apr-2025 16:26

tweake:

thats right up my alley.

what part of the country are you in?

what are you doing for air movement? its not just about heating or cooling loads but where they are. getting solar gains done right per room is very difficult and expensive, and it sounds like your not going full hog on it. with a not quite fully done setup you could very easily end up with one side of the house hot and the other cold. especially with no air movement through the house to balance it out. more so with double story houses.

i would advise putting a system in through out the house, even if its not to heat cool but to clean the air and to move the air around. if your using mini splits then you should have ceiling fans for air movement.

We're in Auckland, so yep, overheating is probably more of a concern than cold. I had assumed that the MVHR (Zehnder Q350) would do enough to even out any local variation in temperature.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3368342 28-Apr-2025 16:34

Twincamr2:

there won't be any bbq'ing out the back thankfully, but the point is well made. Will consider if the location is correct. There's a full spec for the ventilation ductwork. The architect is very experienced with them. Zehnder Q350 inside the back door. I'll be running the ducting (and all the low voltage cabling) myself, so we're guaranteed a hack job! :)

Haven't thought about surge and lightning protection. Good ideas. Not really in a high lightning risk area.

basic surge protection is really easy to install at the fuse board. tho the earlier on the incoming supply you can put it the better. a lot of electronics will not warranty the item unless it has surge protection.

just want to make sure they have allowed space for the duct runs, especially with plumbing so close. that will effect how things get wired.

the zehnder is a pretty $$$ unit especially for an almost passive house. couldn't find cheaper units?

have they allowed room for a pre filter for the ventilation? common trick to keep prices low is to leave that out. matt risinger build show has a good video on that.

the other point is if your running ducting and have vents, change the heat pump to a ducted heat pump.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3368345 28-Apr-2025 16:39

Twincamr2:

We're in Auckland, so yep, overheating is probably more of a concern than cold. I had assumed that the MVHR (Zehnder Q350) would do enough to even out any local variation in temperature.

ventilation air flow is pretty small. i would never rely on it for heating/cooling/mixing. typically want a ducted heat pump for that (much higher air flows) or ceiling fans.

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