Ducted heatpumps - Panasonic vs Mitsubishi

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Ducted heatpumps - Panasonic vs Mitsubishi

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eluSiveNZ

188 posts

Master Geek

#3153963 31-Oct-2023 11:42

kiwikurt:

Curious as to what settings changes you made

It was a bit of a painful process to be honest - I used some Xiaomi temp sensors (with screen) in each bedroom (also used Home Assistant so I could monitor the data)

Then changed the following:

Initial Settings

Temp Sensor - Indoor Unit

Detailed Settings (adjust these settings with caution as there is all sorts of configuration stored here!)

Setting # 36 change it from 0000 -> 0001 (this shows the AC intake temp on the screen)

This allowed me to track what temp the rooms were and what the unit was seeing.

Then in the detailed settings there are 2 individual settings for "Heating Intake Temperature Shift" and "Cooling Intake Temperature Shift"

I forget what the default values were, but i think one was 4degrees from memory, this was causing a massive overshoot for my situation. I adjusted these based on the temps I was seeing and found the sweet spot. (It also took over 6months as I had to wait for summer and winter!)

kiwikurt

33 posts

Geek

#3153968 31-Oct-2023 12:02

eluSiveNZ:
kiwikurt:

Curious as to what settings changes you made

It was a bit of a painful process to be honest - I used some Xiaomi temp sensors (with screen) in each bedroom (also used Home Assistant so I could monitor the data)

Then changed the following:

Initial Settings

Temp Sensor - Indoor Unit

Detailed Settings (adjust these settings with caution as there is all sorts of configuration stored here!)

Setting # 36 change it from 0000 -> 0001 (this shows the AC intake temp on the screen)

This allowed me to track what temp the rooms were and what the unit was seeing.

Then in the detailed settings there are 2 individual settings for "Heating Intake Temperature Shift" and "Cooling Intake Temperature Shift"

I forget what the default values were, but i think one was 4degrees from memory, this was causing a massive overshoot for my situation. I adjusted these based on the temps I was seeing and found the sweet spot. (It also took over 6months as I had to wait for summer and winter!)

Wow good work! We have only 3 outlets and the other half is very resistant to any automation changes I make so may see how this summer goes. But that's really interesting.

iceteap3

40 posts

Geek

#3155191 2-Nov-2023 22:43

timmmay: I suggest taking a step back and consider zoning / individual room control, or high real units. Without zoning / ITC you will probably be unhappy with the system. Highwall units are simpler and work well, but can be louder.

Standard ducting is R0.6, I paid to upgrade to R1.0 as some approximations I did suggested payback period was less than a year. I suspect R1.6 will also be worthwhile. If your ducting runs are short there's less benefit.

An update - We had a person from AES come in today to show us the Fujitsu offerings with Zone control.

Fujitsu ARTH45KHTA-HP (high performance model)

15kW heating, 12.5kW cooling

8 outlets, inc. WIFI, inc. R1.0 ducting

6 individual zones with their own temp sensors controlled using the Fujitsu tablet controller (AnywAIR system)

$ 13.8k NZD

Almost all specs are equal to or better than the Mitsi unit at $13k (i.e noise levels, capacity, other) but for an approx. 800 extra dollars. Im more concerned with reliability, quality, life span with the Fujitsu.

Has anyone got/can comment on a Fujitsu ducted system or the Anywair zoning system? I wonder how it compares to Airtouch/other controllers.

timmmay

20574 posts

Uber Geek

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#3155208 3-Nov-2023 06:56

I don't know anything about Fujitsu ducted units, but we had a Fujitsu high wall for 10 years that worked very well. The indoor unit was quite loud, but the outdoor unit was quiet, but it was quite high capacity unit which may be why it was loud inside. I would generally consider Fujitsu a good brand, with their own zone control with too much control. It's definitely worth following up and learning more about.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3155493 3-Nov-2023 15:45

iceteap3:

An update - We had a person from AES come in today to show us the Fujitsu offerings with Zone control.

Fujitsu ARTH45KHTA-HP (high performance model)

15kW heating, 12.5kW cooling

so only 50% oversized. 😞

timmmay

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#3155497 3-Nov-2023 15:52

There's a whole range of Fujitsu heat pumps in that series from 7.1kw to at 15.5kw. Instead of the ARTH45KHTA model there's the ARTH30KHTA 10kw and ARTH36KHTA 11.2kw, which would take the minimum power down from 4.2kw to 2.7kw - that would help a lot.

It says it has 'zone control' "This function enables efficient air-conditioning by selecting specific zones from the various zones divided within the indoor space.". It doesn't say it has a temperature sensor in each room, which is what you really need.

iceteap3

40 posts

Geek

#3155507 3-Nov-2023 16:19

We've had a remeasure of the house and it actually seems like its slightly larger than previously thought. The previous few ignored the common hallway areas and the visit from AES also mentioned that we should probably use 60w/m3 because of the number of floor to ceiling windows.

Seems like the house does need a larger unit ? (100m2 x 2.4m ceilings = 240m3 , 240m3 x 60 W/m3 = 14400W)

This is the zone controller that comes with it (including 6 Bluetooth temp sensors)

https://www.fujitsugeneral.co.nz/anywair/ducted

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itxtme

2102 posts

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#3155508 3-Nov-2023 16:23

Cant comment on the zone control, but we have a Fujitsu 14kw/12.5kw that would be older than 10 years. Goes perfectly well. It is slightly loud on the outdoor compressor, but I believe that is the nature of the tech on these older models. It could be well over 10 years, was old when we moved in 5 years ago.

Edit: to add I would happily replace it with another Fujitsu when it gave up the gohst

timmmay

20574 posts

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#3155515 3-Nov-2023 16:40

iceteap3:

We've had a remeasure of the house and it actually seems like its slightly larger than previously thought. The previous few ignored the common hallway areas and the visit from AES also mentioned that we should probably use 60w/m3 because of the number of floor to ceiling windows.

Seems like the house does need a larger unit ? (100m2 x 2.4m ceilings = 240m3 , 240m3 x 60 W/m3 = 14400W)

This is the zone controller that comes with it (including 6 Bluetooth temp sensors)

https://www.fujitsugeneral.co.nz/anywair/ducted

We don't need hallways heated, unless you hang out there a lot the heat from the other rooms should keep it warm enough. The exception could be if the hallway turns into open plan or something odd.

Probably best to trust your installer, but maybe mention to them you would rather not oversize the unit so it runs continuously rather than turning off and on all the time.

Zone controller is one of those weird ones that only seems to monitor the temperature in one room at a time. From that page 'MainTemp – Acts as an automated MainZone. MainTemp will automatically select the zone with the greatest difference between actual and desired temperatures. Once this zone is selected and the desired temperature is reached, a new room will be selected and the process repeated.". A friend has a similar system at it works ok, not great, but ok. Airtouch monitors the temperature of all rooms at the same time and adjusts the dampers of each. That one is probably ok.

Make sure you tell your installers in writing what you want to achieve, that way if it doesn't do it you can say "I told you what I wanted". Something fairly broad such as "keep the north facing rooms cool in summer without making the south facing rooms very cold, and in winter heating all rooms to the desired target temperature without overheating rooms".

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3155516 3-Nov-2023 16:41

iceteap3:

We've had a remeasure of the house and it actually seems like its slightly larger than previously thought. The previous few ignored the common hallway areas and the visit from AES also mentioned that we should probably use 60w/m3 because of the number of floor to ceiling windows.

Seems like the house does need a larger unit ? (100m2 x 2.4m ceilings = 240m3 , 240m3 x 60 W/m3 = 14400W)

This is the zone controller that comes with it (including 6 Bluetooth temp sensors)

https://www.fujitsugeneral.co.nz/anywair/ducted

sounds suspicious. window size is part of the calc already, so you do not increase it because of windows. hallway is often left out because generally it has no external walls (tho it has ceiling and floor) and that generally where the return is so it gets heated by the return flow.

also do not calculate by wattage per volume. thats way to crude. there is free calcs around that will do a basic simple calculation which is about the crudest i would do. you measure room sizes and window/door areas, insulation levels and a wild guess at air leakage. window size makes a massive difference to insulation levels.

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