Gas Bottle Placement Regulations

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altered-ego
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#2658548 17-Feb-2021 16:55

You might be interested in Elgas gastools from the Google PlayStore

It mentions "An illustrated guide explaining the proper and safe placement & clearances for LPG gas cylinders including distances from ignition sources, wall openings and below ground spaces, such as drains or pits."

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

debo

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#2659169 18-Feb-2021 20:16

Can you put the cylinders into an air tight outdoor cupboard? Then vent the cupboard 1.5 meters away from everything. It would hide away the ugly cylinders and make thing compliant at the same time.

Froglotion

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#2659274 18-Feb-2021 21:57

Certifying gasfitter here, just don't frequent that often. Lots of incorrect answers in this thread. Can you post up photos of the whole situation, I can give you my opinion on best solution.

Froglotion

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#2659276 18-Feb-2021 22:07

As a brief idea of what I deal with on a weekly basis however.

*Heatpump installers often have IQ's lower than their shoe size. They'd install a heatpump in front of a door if that was the easiest option. They are by far the least knowledgable trades I have to deal with. They don't care about any installations they invalidate. Just pump out their install and go to the next one.

*Electricians often put their earth stakes wherever they want. Have had many a heated argument as to who is going to move their gear (it's never me). Had one this week in fact where it was installed under a cover, in a concrete path, right next to the cylinders. Good luck to them fixing that.

Handle9

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#2659278 18-Feb-2021 22:10

Froglotion:

As a brief idea of what I deal with on a weekly basis however.

*Heatpump installers often have IQ's lower than their shoe size. They'd install a heatpump in front of a door if that was the easiest option. They are by far the least knowledgable trades I have to deal with. They don't care about any installations they invalidate. Just pump out their install and go to the next one.

*Electricians often put their earth stakes wherever they want. Have had many a heated argument as to who is going to move their gear (it's never me). Had one this week in fact where it was installed under a cover, in a concrete path, right next to the cylinders. Good luck to them fixing that.

Heat pump installers aren't a trade. If anything you are underselling the problems with the industry (yes there are good ones).

Froglotion

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#2659283 18-Feb-2021 22:18

Yeah that was just a term I used, wrongly I guess lol. I certainly don't consider the minimal course / training you need to do to install a heatpump to be anywhere near comparable to a trade like building / plumbing and the likes.

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mentor

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#2659408 19-Feb-2021 09:08

We had an identical issue in Nov 2019. The property was being supplied 2 x 45kg bottles since 2008 then BOOM in Nov 2019 we were told that they can't service anymore as the placement of bottles is not compliant yada yada.

We tried calling a few other providers but got the same deal.

In the end had to fork out 3K to put new gas piping to the other side of the house! <sigh>

P.S - I reckon these changes might be related to the Chrishtchurch gas explosion around July 2019?

Fred99

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#2659538 19-Feb-2021 11:48

Froglotion:

Yeah that was just a term I used, wrongly I guess lol. I certainly don't consider the minimal course / training you need to do to install a heatpump to be anywhere near comparable to a trade like building / plumbing and the likes.

But a heat pump installer can't legally connect a heat pump to power in NZ without an electrician (which is a restricted trade), and the electrician shouldn't connect the heat pump if it's been installed too close to a gas installation etc.

Froglotion

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#2659612 19-Feb-2021 13:06

mentor:
P.S - I reckon these changes might be related to the Chrishtchurch gas explosion around July 2019?

Nope, issues just missed previously or due to subsequent heatpump installs etc.

Froglotion

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#2659613 19-Feb-2021 13:10

Fred99:
the electrician shouldn't connect the heat pump if it's been installed too close to a gas installation etc.

Happens alllll the time. Most of the installers I see are electricians too and do the whole job. They just don't know the regulations which is why this is such a common problem.

Bung

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#2659873 19-Feb-2021 15:23

Even the PGDB don't seem that certain. From a PDF of theirs on line
"Concerning earth electrodes the Electrical standard AS/NZS 3000:2007 (cited in G9)
outlines that electrical equipment cannot be installed around the ‘hazardous area’ around
LP gas cylinders.
The hazardous area outlined in AS/NZS 3000:2007 is the same as the clearances
recommended for ignition sources in the informative appendix J5 of 5601.1:2013. This
would imply that an electrician can’t install an electrode within this area.
However, for an electrode to spark there would be a major fault with the electrical
system."

(Since the Board won't get off the fence)

"The Board's advice is that where it is not clear whether a site is suitable for the LP gas
cylinder it is advisable to discuss the placement of the cylinder with the LP gas supplier
before a site is chosen. This will help ensure that the LP gas provider is willing to deliver
the LP gas cylinder(s)."

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Froglotion

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#2659891 19-Feb-2021 16:14

Earth stake can be a source of ignition. So it doesn't really matter if they say so or not. It's the same deal with fibre, there was a notice at some point saying it is considered a source of ignition too. Even though the power at which fibre here is run isn't considered high enough to be a source of ignition. It's all about butt covering and covering situations where a fault could cause a problem.

The whole reason for the exclusion zone is that if the cylinders vent, there is clearance. I've never seen a cylinder vent. Or ever heard of it happening. So it's all to cover than one in a million situation.

Froglotion

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#2659894 19-Feb-2021 16:17

I've had the same conversation with many electricians. Not my rule, just having to enforce it. When they say it's not a source of ignition I ask what happens if the connection to the stake is loose and an appliance earth's out? They then move the stake without much fuss.

networkn

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#2659895 19-Feb-2021 16:17

Heh, but holy crapsticks if you are that 1 in a million!

We had my nephew living with us 10 years ago. He used to sneak smokes in the room directly above the gas bottle, stub them out and wrap them in homework paper and throw them out the window onto the ground right beside the gas bottles. He doesn't live with us any more.

networkn

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#2659897 19-Feb-2021 16:20

I am far far far more concerned about the Heat Pump Condenser than about the door opening. The chances of the gas getting through a door which is closed 99.9% of the time (though it does have a cat door), are infinitely small, but a condensor malfunctioning, yikes. Had I have known earlier it would have been moved already!

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