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networkn

Networkn
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#281417 16-Feb-2021 17:16
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So, after two years of delivering us Gas bottles, which included an initial inspection for the first delivery, our gas bottle company has refused to deliver bottles to us, till we meet regulations around distance between the bottles and our rear door, and also bottles and ignition sources.

 

Despite me asking them to clarify when these regulations were introduced (we have been in this house, which was new, 15+ years), they won't tell us. We had a heat pump installed in 2014 which would have needed a code of compliance by the installer for the electrical work.

 

If regulations have changed in the relatively recent times, then surely they don't retroactively apply?

 

  • The issue is, we don't have another suitable location for the bottles, that would comply anyway, so it would require us to move the heatpump external unit a few meters away, and the cost of that is not insignificant. If the law changed before 2014, then our installer may be liable, though how we would force them to come back and move it gratis is a different issue.

The two regulations we are apparently in breach of is no Gas bottles within 1 meter of a dwelling entry (We have 700mm) such as door or Window, and 1.5M from the Gas Bottles to Ignition sources (we have 1M)

 

I can't see how practically we can move it as there are drains in the ground, downpipes in the way of moving the heat pump condenser, and no where else the unit could go (except on the roof).

 

 

 

How would the house have got a code of compliance at the start with placement as it is right now?

 

 

 

We want to be safe, but also, don't want to end up having to rejig our entire rear of the house and get into disputes unncessarily. The cost of all of this isn't going to be insignificant.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 


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SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #2657691 16-Feb-2021 17:26
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It sounds like your supplier is being unreasonable. Unless they are willing to justify their position by citing legislation or regulation that applies in your case, then I would consider them in breach of contract. At the very least, they aren't acting in good faith, and a complaint to the Commerce Commission or other regulatory body may be in order.

 

Regarding regulations. There is a general principle that regulations not be retrospective. Unlike legislation, regulations can be challenged. If the regulation is retrospective, you can request the Regulations Review Committee disallow the regulation. Refer to the Parliament website for details.




networkn

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  #2657701 16-Feb-2021 17:35
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From my research :

 

AS/NZS 1596 seems to be the primary regulation. As best I can tell, reviewed in 2014 and based off the original from 2008?

 

The standards aren't free to the public for some crazy reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Handle9
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  #2657705 16-Feb-2021 17:50
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This is the likely installation guidlelines they are following. You are almost certainly in breach with the door being 700mm away.

 

http://www.gasnz.org.nz/uploads/images/LPGA/LPGA%20COP%20No.5%20November%202019_v5_final.pdf

 

 




  #2657715 16-Feb-2021 17:57
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We went through this a couple of years ago. First the house earth stake was too close. When the sparky installed a new stake he used a grinder to cut the old one off flush with the concrete path which must has been an fire risk. Then months later the outdoor heat pump unit had to move. That was for the better as it had been a long long way from the indoor unit. It cost us most of $2k all up.


networkn

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  #2657717 16-Feb-2021 17:58
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Handle9:

This is the likely installation guidlelines they are following. You are almost certainly in breach with the door being 700mm away.


http://www.gasnz.org.nz/uploads/images/LPGA/LPGA%20COP%20No.5%20November%202019_v5_final.pdf


 



How did my home get a code of compliance if that's the case?

Handle9
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  #2657719 16-Feb-2021 17:59
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networkn:
Handle9:

 

This is the likely installation guidlelines they are following. You are almost certainly in breach with the door being 700mm away.

 

http://www.gasnz.org.nz/uploads/images/LPGA/LPGA%20COP%20No.5%20November%202019_v5_final.pdf

 



How did my home get a code of compliance if that's the case?

 

No idea.


SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #2657720 16-Feb-2021 18:02
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networkn:
Handle9:

 

This is the likely installation guidlelines they are following. You are almost certainly in breach with the door being 700mm away.

 



How did my home get a code of compliance if that's the case?

 

A Code of Practice is not a binding document.


 
 
 

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Scott3
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  #2657722 16-Feb-2021 18:04
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In terms of a solution, a bunch of separation distance rules allow the distance to be measured around a wall. In some cases, building a wall in between objects to meet separation distance requirements is cheaper than moving the stuff.

 

Haven't verified if this is the case with gas.

 

Could also consider switching from bottle gas to natural gas (if available), or going all electric.


Fred99
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  #2657724 16-Feb-2021 18:11
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I think some regs may have changed in about 2009, give or take a year or so.  That might have meant it complied when built 15 years ago?

 

Only reason I think the regs changed about then was we put in a gas hob oven, IIRC we could have just sneaked in under the old regs and put a 9kg cylinder in a cupboard, but to meet new regs the cupboard would have needed to be vented outdoors to prescribed standards that would have been difficult to meet.  It was easy enough to put the cylinders outdoors - and that met the new regs and was safer and we didn't lose cupboard space - so we went that way instead.  Of course this could be a red herring, regs differ for (IIRC) installations with less than 15kg and over 15kg capacity.

 

How come it seems that there's never a qualified gasfitter in forums?  (This comment probably belongs in the things that annoy me thread  Maybe they're all far too busy, and don't like talking work after hours.)

 

As far as the heat pump install goes, I'd have thought a sparky should know and that the regs won't have changed significantly since 2014.  OTOH my son worked (as apprentice) sparky for a heat-pump installer for a little while.  He changed jobs because the installers were cowboys, none were qualified sparkies, and though the owner of the firm was a sparky, he thought very dodgy and working to minimum standards and never "best practice". 


Handle9
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  #2657725 16-Feb-2021 18:13
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Fred99:

 

How come it seems that there's never a qualified gasfitter in forums?  (This comment probably belongs in the things that annoy me thread  Maybe they're all far too busy, and don't like talking work after hours.)

 

 

There used to be (@aredwood). Haven't seen him for a few years though.


Fred99
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  #2657727 16-Feb-2021 18:24
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Handle9:

 

Fred99:

 

How come it seems that there's never a qualified gasfitter in forums?  (This comment probably belongs in the things that annoy me thread  Maybe they're all far too busy, and don't like talking work after hours.)

 

 

There used to be (@aredwood). Haven't seen him for a few years though.

 

 

Maybe he'll get a message from you tagging him. Not sure if he was a gasfitter as well as plumber though, IIRC there are separate licenses for each trade.  OTOH I'm sure he knows much more than the average punter.


networkn

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  #2657728 16-Feb-2021 18:26
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Well, the house was built prior to 2008 (2006) when the regulations were put in place (I think that's correct), the 2014 and such "updates" don't appear to have been significant.

 

Either way, I am not sure how to best proceed.

 

The heat pump installer would be required by law presumably to rectify their installation, though I am not sure who would enforce that?

 

If we can move the heatpump, we can possibly one of the bottles to the other side, and we should just "squeak" through with a mimumim of clearance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Beccara
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  #2657731 16-Feb-2021 18:32
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Is the heatpump gas or electric? if electric the installation of it and it's COC would have not considered the gas system in any way? unless i'm missing something





Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

mattwnz
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  #2657732 16-Feb-2021 18:34
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networkn:

 

From my research :

 

AS/NZS 1596 seems to be the primary regulation. As best I can tell, reviewed in 2014 and based off the original from 2008?

 

The standards aren't free to the public for some crazy reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I recall there was a gas bottom distance requirement when my parents build in about 2005, of a minimum distance from openings. The gas fitter / plumber had to move the bottle location further away from the  garage door as a result.  

 

I recall the government made many NZS building standards free, but I don't think that included joint AS/NZS standards. IMO they should all be freely available so consumers have full and easy to access information.


Handle9
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  #2657734 16-Feb-2021 18:36
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Beccara:

 

Is the heatpump gas or electric? if electric the installation of it and it's COC would have not considered the gas system in any way? unless i'm missing something

 

 

I don't think you can't install within an explosion zone without using EX rated gear.

 

@gregmcc would have a better idea.


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