Does this bill for installing an outside plug seem expensive

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#2939865 8-Jul-2022 19:47

John19612:
gregmcc:

FYI a CoC is a mandated government document and required by law for any general or high risk electrical work, is there anything else you think should be built in to the labour charge, the sundarys?, the travel?, the power point? Not every job will require a CoC, low risk work such as repairs does not, so there would not be a CoC charge.

Simple fact is if you build the cost of things that may or may not be needed on a job in to the labour rate, you will price yourself off the market, the fair way is charge for things actually provided, a power point was needed and provided and charged for, a CoC was needed and provided and charge for.

Again, your argument simply doesn't hold water. Sundries, travel and parts are all unique to each job and should be charged accordingly. Whereas, virtually each job requires some form of compliance documentation, be it an ESC, CoC, or RoI (some of, or all, as necessary). The electrician has already charged labour for the time they spent conducting such tests as necessary to ensure that the work is safe in accordance with legislation. They will also be charging for the time it takes them to fill in the compliance documentation. To claim a separate charge for this is ethically bankrupt.

Hyperbole much?

There’s a fairly significant group of customers who only care about hourly rates. When you have customers who behave this way then you end up with all sorts of add ons like van fees, call-out fees, COC fees etc.

There’s a hundred different ways to price a job, with more or less transparency in the recovery rate. Arguably a COC fee is more transparent as there is a cost in administering these.

In the end the overall cost of the job is what matters, not how the price is built up.

Garvos

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#2939874 8-Jul-2022 20:17

Correct me if I’m wrong i was reading the invoice And i quote “Taped into a j box that was inside on the washing machine” that would be this box witch is above the washing machine if so if i where to measure the length of the cable used i doubt it would be any where near 3m. Don’t worry about the mess for $800 the customer can clean it up lol.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2939879 8-Jul-2022 20:37

Yeah, that's pretty poor workmanship, especially for the hourly rate.

Wheelbarrow01

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#2939899 8-Jul-2022 22:23

Bung:
Wheelbarrow01:

Here's my invoice for a similar job at my bach back in 2020.

Was there already an existing RCD?

I'm guessing that's what the "20amp circuit breaker" is on the invoice, but the sub main board that pre-existed in the sleepout is fairly new so may very well already have had an RCD. In other words I have no idea lol, but I am sure it's all been done properly.

Bung

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#2939907 8-Jul-2022 23:24

The circuit breaker needs to be downstream of an existing RCD. If the sleepout is recent that is likely, I have seen sockets added to relatives houses where the board dates to 1990s before RCD were mandatory and no upgrade done.

mattwnz

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#2939911 9-Jul-2022 01:36

Some of the workmanship in the photos looked rough, but seems typical these days with some I have seen. I do feel there is a lack of pride these days, but IMO they should clean up after themselves , especially considering the cost and there is an apprentice who could do it. They have to learn good work ethics IMO .

tweake

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#2939936 9-Jul-2022 09:11

mattwnz:

Some of the workmanship in the photos looked rough, but seems typical these days with some I have seen. I do feel there is a lack of pride these days, but IMO they should clean up after themselves , especially considering the cost and there is an apprentice who could do it. They have to learn good work ethics IMO .

i was a tradie for 10 years and every time i went to clean up i was told not to bother by the customer. i doubt many customers want to pay someone $75-100/hour to do something they can do for free.

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FineWine

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#2939963 9-Jul-2022 11:33

tweake:

mattwnz:

Some of the workmanship in the photos looked rough, but seems typical these days with some I have seen. I do feel there is a lack of pride these days, but IMO they should clean up after themselves , especially considering the cost and there is an apprentice who could do it. They have to learn good work ethics IMO .

i was a tradie for 10 years and every time i went to clean up i was told not to bother by the customer. i doubt many customers want to pay someone $75-100/hour to do something they can do for free.

I agree with mattwnz - apprentices have to learn a good work ethic. Get off their 'social media', interact politely and sociably with the customer and learn the trade.

I also agree with tweake - but here the offer was made and not just left, which is part of the apprentice learning curve.

These trade apprenticeships are long and only the dedicated few will make it through. As a retired nurse, I saw it all the time with new grad nurses who are just 21 and have money in their pocket and still have stars in their eyes. Yes they have done a 3 yr uni degree, and think they know it all, but what a lot do not realise is there is at least another 2 years on top of that of on the job training, the practical side of nursing. Then if you want to specialise there is another approx 4-6 yr post grad depending upon what you choose. But again, like tradies, nursing is a customer focused profession and you must learn this on the job.

If you can not take pride in your work and/or if you can not get on with the client then leave the profession.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

boosacnoodle

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#2940123 9-Jul-2022 15:35

SomeoneSomewhere: Yeah, that's pretty poor workmanship, especially for the hourly rate.

Agree. I've always had the tradesperson offer - after all, I'm paying them for it - but usually declined. It's the offer that counts, it shows you care.

Bung

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#2940137 9-Jul-2022 16:27

If they cared it is so easy to catch drill swarf at the time and not leave a mess to start with.

FineWine

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#2940145 9-Jul-2022 16:48

Bung: If they cared it is so easy to catch drill swarf at the time and not leave a mess to start with.

We bought one of these when we bought our Dyson Trigger V7: LANMU Drill Dust Collector Accessories Kit Compatible with Dyson V11 V10 V8 V7 Vacuum Cleaner, Dust Catcher Attachment with Extension Hose,Work with DEWALT/Black+Decker/Bosch & Other Drill Sets

It is not available now - what a shame because it works great.

The ToolShed has this: Milwaukee Dust Extraction Suction Shroud for Drilling which looks even better as you do not have to hold it in place as it has a Vacuum assisted suction ability enabling it to adhere to even surfaces

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

mattwnz

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#2940146 9-Jul-2022 16:49

tweake:
mattwnz:

Some of the workmanship in the photos looked rough, but seems typical these days with some I have seen. I do feel there is a lack of pride these days, but IMO they should clean up after themselves , especially considering the cost and there is an apprentice who could do it. They have to learn good work ethics IMO .

i was a tradie for 10 years and every time i went to clean up i was told not to bother by the customer. i doubt many customers want to pay someone $75-100/hour to do something they can do for free.

I don’t disagree but quickly tidying up after this work would take no more than 5 minutes and not add to the cost. Some trades and tradies seem a lot better than others I have found from previous construction projects I have been involved with.

t92300

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#2940174 9-Jul-2022 18:16

I used to work for an electrical company in southland with alot lower hourly rate. I wasn't uncommon for us to turn up or call a customer about a job and find that some other company had done it because after waiting 6 months to a year they had given up on us coming.

Garvos

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#2940206 9-Jul-2022 21:02

gregmcc:
John19612:

Your comparison is akin to an orange vs a potato. There is no way I would pay anyone, let alone a lawyer, for both their time and for completing documentation in that time (short of any mandatory local or central government imposed fees). To say otherwise is absurd.

The cost to provide and store compliance documents are so negligible it's not worth considering. The documentation can be obtained for free and storage, either physical or electronic, are minimal. Virtually every job you do requires some form of compliance documentation so it is a standard cost of doing business and therefore should be built into the standard labour charge.

It's no wonder people have developed an inherent mistrust of tradesmen.

FYI a CoC is a mandated government document and required by law for any general or high risk electrical work, is there anything else you think should be built in to the labour charge, the sundarys?, the travel?, the power point? Not every job will require a CoC, low risk work such as repairs does not, so there would not be a CoC charge.

Simple fact is if you build the cost of things that may or may not be needed on a job in to the labour rate, you will price yourself off the market, the fair way is charge for things actually provided, a power point was needed and provided and charged for, a CoC was needed and provided and charge for.

A quick look up of pricing on the gear used on this job, most of the items are slightly more expensive than the price I get gear for, except for the RCBO, the best price I could see was $123+GST, so overall looks like you got a pretty good price on materials (I've allowed for a 33% markup on trade prices), as far as the labour goes, 2.5 hours seems about right, keep in mind that it may seem "easy" from your point of view, but there could have been some challenges you just don't know about, additions/changes to existing an building can be troublesome and some of the labour will be travel there and back.

the labour rate for the Electrician seems about normal, there are higher and lower rates, the apprentice rate is a tad on the high side, overall I think you were charged a fair rate for the work preformed.

Unfortunately I was not home, I said to my wife when did they turn up she said was when I was picking the boys up from there schools. I said how long does that take the response was if I chat to the teachers ect an hour at the most. I then said when u got home when did they leave and she said about 20 min. It’s a Dam shame shame I don’t have cameras. So if they got there as she left and left 20 min after she got back that’s 1 hr 20 maximum on site maximum and paper work there yard is literally a few min away. So give anther 30 min being generous. I’d be a lot happier with 2.5 total. I’ll attach a pic of the outside is usually dark when I get home so that would be all the pics on the job. So looking at the job I do think it looks few min see where the gas guy said to put the plug look he put an x on the wall, look on the inside decide how to do it. easy turn off power Drill a hole run the cable 3 m not 10 “tap in to j box by washing machine”. Secure all fixtures wire plug replace breaker (he wasn’t there very long apparently at the bord) test clean up or just leave the mess.

I have emailed them questioning how they got to the final figure still waiting for a response. Between the two of them should all that have taken more then an hour? I’m extremely disappointed in them I hate it when people are taken advantage of. Like charging for 10m when a maximum of 3 was used being generous the difference in price my only be 20$ but adds up if done multiple times how many customers have then been to where the customer would have no idea how long they are on site couple hours of free labor added on here and there would add up pretty quick.sure we all got to make a living And yes lesson learnt get quotes . At the company I work we have a minimum charge time of 1 hr labor even if the job takes 5 min(probably chalk n cheese) if it’s a regular I would normally just charge for the materials used like an o ring on a blown hose and they may get an xtra Sundry vehicle charge no labor . But that’s for the office to decide and to sort as I’d normally put on my job card was just a blown o ring was literally there for 5 min.

Daynger

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Ultimate Geek

#2940370 10-Jul-2022 15:55

Yeah, after seeing both sides of that wall, i would expect one of my guys to have that done in an hour excluding a parts run if needed.

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