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LightbulbNeil
57 posts

Master Geek


  #3272612 16-Aug-2024 16:21
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I am thinking that the price rises will encourage more people to put solar on their homes if they can. Once there becomes enough people with solar and there becomes an abundance of solar during the day, we may be like parts of Australia where solar customers will be charged for selling back to the grid. I saw a facility in the gvt site for solar price modelling , and it has provision for a sell back tariff already there. So we know that it is only a matter  when not If. 

 

We don't have the Westpac access to the interest free loans, were with ASB and there is not much incentive to borrow for future improvements on the solar system. Since we paid for it up front, the yearly gain is put aside for future upgrades etc. Living in Hamilton, our rates went up by $900 per year, so there is always something taking money out of your pocket. I feel sorry for renters who may see another increase in the rents again. 

 

Last thoughts. The more years before you retire, the more benefit you will see from a solar installation. So people in their late 30's or early 40's are the best position to get solar on board.  I compared our system, to another with a fellow from work. Although we paid more up front, due to the ability to sell more back to the grid, we effectively pay off our system sooner. We also were more self sufficient during the lower output days as well. Over the course of the year they will only have a very small amount to pay at the end of winter. So their July and August bills will have some to pay.

 

Still on the fence about adding another 2kw to help out during the very low solar days and the days with fog to lunchtime. If I wait too long, the same panels I have will not be available. Just the nature of the advancing technology. 


dantheperson
174 posts

Master Geek


  #3272621 16-Aug-2024 16:57
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LightbulbNeil:

 

Still on the fence about adding another 2kw to help out during the very low solar days and the days with fog to lunchtime. 

 

 

Wont the ROI on that be very low?  Apart from a handful of days a year, that extra generation will be pure export.  I figure that's the point of a grid connected system, you don't need to build out for worst case scenario, you can use the grid as your battery, export more on a sunny day, pull it back in on a foggy day.

 

 


HarmLessSolutions
972 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  #3272637 16-Aug-2024 17:36
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LightbulbNeil:

 

I am thinking that the price rises will encourage more people to put solar on their homes if they can. Once there becomes enough people with solar and there becomes an abundance of solar during the day, we may be like parts of Australia where solar customers will be charged for selling back to the grid. I saw a facility in the gvt site for solar price modelling , and it has provision for a sell back tariff already there. So we know that it is only a matter  when not If. 

 

......

 

NZ has a hell of a long way to go before we reach the solar uptake level that Australia has got. Around 2% of homes have rooftop solar here vs 30%+ in Aussie. Ours totals at around 420MW vs >20GW for Aussie and growing fast.

 

If the government is blinkered enough in regard to the opportunity for domestic solar to contribute to our national electricity generation capacity then putting penalty on exporting domestic generation seems like the worst disincentive against DG they could implement. It would not only hinder solar installation but also increase the present incentive for solar households to minimise the percentage of their generation that they export with increased battery storage becoming more viable with disconnection from the grid being the likely end point. 

 

The other major difference NZ has with Australia is our huge hydro storage capacity. This presents us with a significant storage capacity for the consumption offset by solar, and wind, generation. Aussie by contrast is far more reliant on chemical storage means such as grid scale Li-Ion battery installations.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


LightbulbNeil
57 posts

Master Geek


  #3272645 16-Aug-2024 17:50
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dantheperson:

 

LightbulbNeil:

 

Still on the fence about adding another 2kw to help out during the very low solar days and the days with fog to lunchtime. 

 

 

Wont the ROI on that be very low?  Apart from a handful of days a year, that extra generation will be pure export.  I figure that's the point of a grid connected system, you don't need to build out for worst case scenario, you can use the grid as your battery, export more on a sunny day, pull it back in on a foggy day.

 

 

Yeah, the ROI may not be the smartest move, but if I want to expand the system and keep it all compatible, from now to the end of the year is the timeframe to do it. They will not be getting in more of the Panels I have, as they have a newer more efficient models coming out. The panel price will be lower than when I got the system installed, but the wiring and installation cost will be the more expensive side of it. Down the line with a battery in winter it will help more. It will also offset the running of the spa pool as well. The other option is to just wait for 5-6 years, and add another system that is connected to the battery, so run 2 separate solar systems if that becomes the cheaper option. The East/West thing I now know needs 20% more panels to match a North only facing system on our low,15 deg, pitch roof.  I see today the Tesla powerwall 3 is being launched in NZ. I still can't make the numbers work for me at the moment. Everything is a compromise in one way or another.  Incidentally, today has been our worst generation day todate. We did not export any energy at all, and have self consumed all the production, keeping the house warm. We have used all 20kwh produced. The extra panels would have made another 3kWh or so today and would be offset by the power imported today. Like you suggested, the ROI is not really worth it. Seems it would be generating about $540 a year more energy over all. 


RobDickinson
1524 posts

Uber Geek


  #3273401 19-Aug-2024 11:29
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ah starting to look at a system now, after deciding not to move..

 

Many complicated.. !  And hard to find actual prices for the hardware to see what is what

 

So have 4 companies coming round to quote for a system now.

 

~10,000kwh annual , 750-1500kwh per month in chc

 

 

 

Battery for resilience more than payback - not sure what my wish list daily use would be , water heating, ff, lights, induction hob/kettle ?

 

 

 

 


LightbulbNeil
57 posts

Master Geek


  #3273403 19-Aug-2024 11:32
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We have had a cooling fan failure in our 3Phase Fronius inverter. Now that it has been replaced, our system is now where it should be. With the failed fan, it just automatically throttles back the system to a much lower output. Fronius wanted the failed fan to look for the cause of the failure. 

 

So something to be aware of, is noticing if the inverter goes quiet when it normally has some noise. Some don't have circulating fans are are passive cooling.

 

It also pays to check if any error messages show up in the monitoring software. 

 

Neil


Scottyd89
14 posts

Geek


  #3273560 19-Aug-2024 19:05
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Just a question on export limits.  Have started to see the production be in the mid 5kw range at some points during the day. Fronius Solarweb is suggesting we're exporting just over 5kw at times.  I thought there was a 5kw limit?  I'd be happy if this wasn't the case to maximise exports.


HarmLessSolutions
972 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  #3273566 19-Aug-2024 19:11
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Scottyd89:

 

Just a question on export limits.  Have started to see the production be in the mid 5kw range at some points during the day. Fronius Solarweb is suggesting we're exporting just over 5kw at times.  I thought there was a 5kw limit?  I'd be happy if this wasn't the case to maximise exports.

 

Our Fronius does breach the 5kW cap marginally at times. Guess it's just a monitoring delay thing. Also I found today that there are some lines companies that have a maximum per phase more than 5kW so worth checking what yours actually is?





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


Ge0rge
2052 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3273592 19-Aug-2024 20:18
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HarmLessSolutions: Our Fronius does breach the 5kW cap marginally at times. Guess it's just a monitoring delay thing. Also I found today that there are some lines companies that have a maximum per phase more than 5kW so worth checking what yours actually is?



That's quite interesting - as far as I was aware, there is an AS/NZ standard that says no more than 5kVA on a single phase, and no more than 5kVA imbalance for multi-phase. I wonder how a lines company is allowing in excess of that?

HarmLessSolutions
972 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  #3273596 19-Aug-2024 20:23
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Ge0rge:
HarmLessSolutions: Our Fronius does breach the 5kW cap marginally at times. Guess it's just a monitoring delay thing. Also I found today that there are some lines companies that have a maximum per phase more than 5kW so worth checking what yours actually is?

 

 

 



That's quite interesting - as far as I was aware, there is an AS/NZ standard that says no more than 5kVA on a single phase, and no more than 5kVA imbalance for multi-phase. I wonder how a lines company is allowing in excess of that?
I checked out The Lines Company that serves Te Kuiti, etc today. Their cap is 6kW. See under Operation & Congestion Management just below the bullet points.

 

 





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


LightbulbNeil
57 posts

Master Geek


  #3273616 19-Aug-2024 20:52
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Our application has no cap per phase or what we can export. The person doing the Fronius repair said that he has not seen any other applications that were left open like my one is.
So it seems it does pay to check with the area lines company and the energy retailer that you are woking with. The standard of 5kva per phase occurs in most places. Some rural areas are 5kva and on only 1 phase of export is allowed.
With Meridian , required us to contact them about the size of our system. Effectively 13kw.
Smaller systems in the 8kw have been granted to 6.5kva (6kwh) with Meridian in Hamilton.
If you don't ask, you won't know what the limit that the companies are willing to accept.
Some of it could be due to the fairly high wholesale prices are at the moment and it makes a financial gain for them .
Neil

HarmLessSolutions
972 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  #3273624 19-Aug-2024 21:22
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My understanding is that the 5kW/phase that PowerCo implement in our case is to make sure that DG inputs don't pose a risk of putting the phase loads out of balance. We're rural and despite having 2 phases here we opted to go single phase as we didn't consider the extra expense of installing the whole system (inverter, EVSE, delegation of house circuits) warranted and our self consumption with 2 EVs, pumped water supply, HWC diverter, WFH situation is good enough. If we move to a V2G or battery export situation in the future we may have to go multi phase to make things work with the higher export potential contravening the cap.

 

From what I've found the lines companies usually have an export cap but it often taking a bit of digging through their website T&Cs to find it, or ask a reputable installer.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


billgates

4705 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #3273702 20-Aug-2024 07:58
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LightbulbNeil: Our application has no cap per phase or what we can export. The person doing the Fronius repair said that he has not seen any other applications that were left open like my one is.
So it seems it does pay to check with the area lines company and the energy retailer that you are woking with. The standard of 5kva per phase occurs in most places. Some rural areas are 5kva and on only 1 phase of export is allowed.
With Meridian , required us to contact them about the size of our system. Effectively 13kw.
Smaller systems in the 8kw have been granted to 6.5kva (6kwh) with Meridian in Hamilton.
If you don't ask, you won't know what the limit that the companies are willing to accept.
Some of it could be due to the fairly high wholesale prices are at the moment and it makes a financial gain for them .
Neil

 

I signed up to Meridian around 4 months ago over the phone on their Solar plan and not once did they ask me about the size of my Solar PV system which is 14.9kW even though on their website they state they will work on a case-by-case basis if size of PV array is greater than 10kW. I do not think any of the retailers really care or check. My first/initial electricity retailer when we got Solar PV installed was Genesis which supports up to 50kW PV array at the time, so they never asked any questions either.





Do whatever you want to do man.

  

traderstu
332 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #3273712 20-Aug-2024 08:59
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Yes, this is interesting. We have 12.45kW of panels over 2 phases. When we applied to PowerCo our system was approved with no export cap. This documentation was part of our application to EK for solar export and they didn't query it so our system was installed with no limit on the export. It does peak at slightly over a total of 12.45kW occasionally over summer.

 

Since our install, EK have updated their Ts & Cs stating that the maximum generation/storage must be no more than 10kW

 

Needless to say, I haven't raised this with PowerCo or EK - not my job.


RobDickinson
1524 posts

Uber Geek


  #3273787 20-Aug-2024 11:08
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OK first quote (basic no site visit for this one)

 

24 x Dasolar DAS-DH108NA440 solar panels rated at a 10.56 kW
DC maximum output
1 x Sungrow SH10RS inverter rated at 10 kW AC output
1 x Sungrow SBR128 battery operating

 

 

 

$35k


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