The best pan for very hot frying

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Hammered
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#2809189 8-Nov-2021 09:40

timmmay:
Interesting. I have a glass top induction hob. This article says because cast iron is rough it can scratch the cooktop. My wife would not be pleased. I'll look at carbon steel or stainless steel.

Ours isn't that flash, just a ceramic hob. Our old house has a gas hob, so we had a fair bit of cast iron cookware. When we moved here, the cast iron was donated. We've got various non-stick pans, and they're just not up to the task.

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#2809197 8-Nov-2021 09:54

Carbon Steel seems to consistently get recommended. I've never tried one. I have a really good stainless WMF and I use it for my high-temperature frying..

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#2809227 8-Nov-2021 11:18

IME the bigger factor is the weight (i.e. thermal mass) of the pan than the material it's made from. You can get a sheet of tinfoil to an extremely high temperature but it won't have much stored heat energy in it. If you toss a couple of eggs into a very high temperature but low mass pan, the pan will end up being much closer to the temperature of the eggs than vice versa (5th form physics FTW).

I tend to cook messy things in stainless steel, since you don't really need to season it (we use canola before cooking) and you don't need to look after it - you can even scour it clean afterwards. But that is with a reasonably thick pan and we have gas hobs so can crank in a lot of heat really quickly (certainly faster than an old style electric hob; I've not used induction so don't know how quickly that works).

But things that are important to get (and stay) the right temperature (e.g. steak and omelettes) I use thick cast iron. Properly seasoned it's really non stick, though you do need to treat it well. From that video posted earlier, it sounds like you would get similar results from equally thick stainless steel, but that will be more expensive than the equivalent in iron.

But but, cast iron doesn't need to be rough. It is rough from the casting process. Cheap cast iron takes it out of the mold and calls it done. Some high end cast iron (also expensive) is actually machined smooth afterwards. Or cheaper cast iron can be polished smooth yourself - this is what I have done. Smooth cast iron properly seasoned is amazingly non stick. Cheesy omelettes come straight out with just a little bit of butter to cook in. Polishing it yourself is straightforward, but you do need the right tools and it makes a horrid mess.

Finally, for big pans (bigger than the element), cast iron (and carbon steel) are much much better heat conductors than stainless steel. Stainless steel will have a hotspot over the element and be relatively cool elsewhere in the pan (again, thicker is better since it will offset this a bit), whereas cast iron and carbon steel will heat up much more evenly.

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#2809234 8-Nov-2021 11:54

elbrownos:

Also check out this Adam Ragusea video about why olive oil is the best for frying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_aFHrzSBrM

That is pretty interesting. I've always used olive oil but light ones. He doesn't seem to specifically address whether they're ok, but seems to be that extra virgin is better for frying even at high heat.

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#2809235 8-Nov-2021 11:56

networkn:

Carbon Steel seems to consistently get recommended. I've never tried one. I have a really good stainless WMF and I use it for my high-temperature frying..

@networkn Do you season the stainless steel or just use it without that? Or do you just use lots of oil? My wife will kill me / make me clean it if I buy a pan that takes ages to clean because of sticking food.

timmmay

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#2809236 8-Nov-2021 12:00

mdf:

IME the bigger factor is the weight (i.e. thermal mass) of the pan than the material it's made from. You can get a sheet of tinfoil to an extremely high temperature but it won't have much stored heat energy in it. If you toss a couple of eggs into a very high temperature but low mass pan, the pan will end up being much closer to the temperature of the eggs than vice versa (5th form physics FTW).

I tend to cook messy things in stainless steel, since you don't really need to season it (we use canola before cooking) and you don't need to look after it - you can even scour it clean afterwards. But that is with a reasonably thick pan and we have gas hobs so can crank in a lot of heat really quickly (certainly faster than an old style electric hob; I've not used induction so don't know how quickly that works).

But things that are important to get (and stay) the right temperature (e.g. steak and omelettes) I use thick cast iron. Properly seasoned it's really non stick, though you do need to treat it well. From that video posted earlier, it sounds like you would get similar results from equally thick stainless steel, but that will be more expensive than the equivalent in iron.

But but, cast iron doesn't need to be rough. It is rough from the casting process. Cheap cast iron takes it out of the mold and calls it done. Some high end cast iron (also expensive) is actually machined smooth afterwards. Or cheaper cast iron can be polished smooth yourself - this is what I have done. Smooth cast iron properly seasoned is amazingly non stick. Cheesy omelettes come straight out with just a little bit of butter to cook in. Polishing it yourself is straightforward, but you do need the right tools and it makes a horrid mess.

Finally, for big pans (bigger than the element), cast iron (and carbon steel) are much much better heat conductors than stainless steel. Stainless steel will have a hotspot over the element and be relatively cool elsewhere in the pan (again, thicker is better since it will offset this a bit), whereas cast iron and carbon steel will heat up much more evenly.

Yep agree about mass, not really a problem for the food I cook. Canola oil though, not good for you. Have a look at this video on the previous page, or this one.

Interesting that cast iron can be finished to be smooth. A good quality cast iron pan sounds like it would do the job. No way am I doing that myself though, if I go that way I'll buy one already done :)

How do you find stainless steel in terms of non-stick and cleaning? What kind of stove do you use? Induction should be fairly even I'd have hoped. Might be best to get one that has some extra copper or something in it as a heat spreader. I only need a medium sized pan, same size as the element.

networkn

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#2809239 8-Nov-2021 12:08

timmmay:

Do you season the stainless steel or just use it without that? Or do you just use lots of oil? My wife will kill me / make me clean it if I buy a pan that takes ages to clean because of sticking food.

I have non-stick and my SS frypan. I do steak and meats usually, where I want a good crust on SS one, and everything else I do in the non Stick.

There has long been a myth that you need a pan screaming hot to get a good sear. You need some moderate to high heat, but the reason IMO that people end up needing so much heat, is that when the surface of the meat isn't dry (free of water), then a huge amount of heat is used to evaporate. Without enough, you boil your steak. If you dry your meat, or use a method like dry brining, and use enough oil to make sure there is a good seal, you can get a very acceptable crust on your meat without near as much heat. It's generally advised to keep non stick pans to under 200c, but 200c is still very hot. I work at <185 to be on the safe side on my nonstick pans and trays and people are complimentary about my food. I use my SS for steaks and similar cuts and my wife is usually OK with the relatively OK clean up job.

BTW if you get a lot of splatter in your oil, that is a result of the water content interacting with the hot oil. One nice way to determine how hot your oil is is to wet the ends of your fingers with water and flick some into the pan, the ferocity of the splatter tells you how hot the oil is.

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#2809240 8-Nov-2021 12:13

networkn:

I have non-stick and my SS frypan. I do steak and meats usually, where I want a good crust on SS one, and everything else I do in the non Stick.

There has long been a myth that you need a pan screaming hot to get a good sear. You need some moderate to high heat, but the reason IMO that people end up needing so much heat, is that when the surface of the meat isn't dry (free of water), then a huge amount of heat is used to evaporate. Without enough, you boil your steak. If you dry your meat, or use a method like dry brining, and use enough oil to make sure there is a good seal, you can get a very acceptable crust on your meat without near as much heat. It's generally advised to keep non stick pans to under 200c, but 200c is still very hot. I work at <185 to be on the safe side on my nonstick pans and trays and people are complimentary about my food. I use my SS for steaks and similar cuts and my wife is usually OK with the relatively OK clean up job.

BTW if you get a lot of splatter in your oil, that is a result of the water content interacting with the hot oil. One nice way to determine how hot your oil is is to wet the ends of your fingers with water and flick some into the pan, the ferocity of the splatter tells you how hot the oil is.

I don't eat meat any more, so that's not an issue for me. I just cook everything REALLY hot - eggs, vegetables, etc. If the pan ain't smoking it ain't hot enough! Ever cooked eggs in the SS pan? If so how were the eggs and the clean-up?

mdf

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#2809244 8-Nov-2021 12:18

timmmay:

<snip>

How do you find stainless steel in terms of non-stick and cleaning? What kind of stove do you use? Induction should be fairly even I'd have hoped. Might be best to get one that has some extra copper or something in it as a heat spreader. I only need a medium sized pan, same size as the element.

Stainless isn't non stick. But it's much less porous (I believe) than things like cast iron so naturally less sticky, and you don't get stuff trapped in the pores for other stuff to stick to. You can also quite happily use a scotchbrite or a scourer, or toss it in the dishwasher (not if coppered) if anything does stick so super easy cleaning. I guess you could season it (i.e. add a layer of polymerised oil) if you really wanted non stick, but that just means you then need to be a bit more careful with it so as not to scrape the seasoning.

I shelled out quite a bit once on a stainless steel plate for a BBQ and it was so much worse than the cast iron replacement at spreading the heat it got tossed quite rapidly. It had hot lines along the line of the burner and pretty much cold at the edges. The stainless pan seems fine if it matches (roughly) the size of the element. We use gas and have lots of control and almost instant response on stainless.

Does copper do anything on an induction hob? I was under the impression that induction heated the iron directly and you needed to use something magnetic/ferrous for a pan?

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#2809250 8-Nov-2021 12:27

mdf:

Stainless isn't non stick. But it's much less porous (I believe) than things like cast iron so naturally less sticky, and you don't get stuff trapped in the pores for other stuff to stick to. You can also quite happily use a scotchbrite or a scourer, or toss it in the dishwasher (not if coppered) if anything does stick so super easy cleaning. I guess you could season it (i.e. add a layer of polymerised oil) if you really wanted non stick, but that just means you then need to be a bit more careful with it so as not to scrape the seasoning.

I shelled out quite a bit once on a stainless steel plate for a BBQ and it was so much worse than the cast iron replacement at spreading the heat it got tossed quite rapidly. It had hot lines along the line of the burner and pretty much cold at the edges. The stainless pan seems fine if it matches (roughly) the size of the element. We use gas and have lots of control and almost instant response on stainless.

Does copper do anything on an induction hob? I was under the impression that induction heated the iron directly and you needed to use something magnetic/ferrous for a pan?

Apparently seasoning doesn't work as well because it's so smooth the oil doesn't stick so well. The only reason for copper in a stainless steel pan is to spread the heat as copper has high heat conductivity. If I keep the pan size small SS might work ok, but wouldn't be as non-stick. I'll probably look more at carbon zinc or well machined cast iron.

Induction gives similar responsiveness to gas without the mess :)

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#2809251 8-Nov-2021 12:28

timmmay:

<snip>

I don't eat meat any more, so that's not an issue for me. I just cook everything REALLY hot - eggs, vegetables, etc. If the pan ain't smoking it ain't hot enough! Ever cooked eggs in the SS pan? If so how were the eggs and the clean-up?

I always do direct heat eggs (fried, scrambled and omelettes) in smoothed, seasoned cast iron. Super non stick, clean up is just wiping with a damp clean cloth (no soap, it spoils the seasoning). Finish cleaning by returning to the stovetop to reheat (evaporate any moisture so no rust) then a very thin coat of oil buffed until it smokes and polymerises. Longest part is leaving it on the stovetop to cool down before putting it away again - ideally in the box it came in to keep the seasoning pristine.

That said, it does sound like you cook eggs at a hotter temperature than I would - I like my eggs barely cooked and won't too much heat make them go rubbery?

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#2809255 8-Nov-2021 12:33

A chef friend put me onto blue-steel pans. These are carbon-steel heat treated to prevent oxidation. They are bullet proof (probably literally) and when seasoned properly, non-stick.

Incidentally people claim you can season stainless E.g. https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/how-to-turn-stainless-steel-skillet-nonstick-article

I've tried without success, I can't get the sheen they refer to.

Mike

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#2809258 8-Nov-2021 12:35

timmmay:

I don't eat meat any more, so that's not an issue for me. I just cook everything REALLY hot - eggs, vegetables, etc. If the pan ain't smoking it ain't hot enough! Ever cooked eggs in the SS pan? If so how were the eggs and the clean-up?

Not sure why you'd be cooking everything so hot, you can cook eggs with your breath after a run LOL. I wouldn't use SS for eggs, when a Non Stick pan does a very good job and wouldn't require anywhere near the heat of SS.

I'll be surprised if you aren't overcooking whatever protein you are now eating, which is pretty highly ill-advised these days. You shouldn't need a smoking pan for much if anything I can think of.

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#2809262 8-Nov-2021 12:40

I treat eggs as an ingredient, cooked with cheese and beans. They're quite different from scrambled eggs and such, but I like them that way :) Very simple to do. Scramble some eggs with a lot of cheese, add a can of chilli beans, cook for 10 minutes on medium to high heat. Add extra chilli sauce or anything else you like, I add diced sweet spied gherkins. I've been making that for a decade and love it. Recently I've been making a home made burger sauce from extra virgin olive oil that I put on top - super tasty, and most store bought sauces and aioli are all really cheap poor oils you shouldn't eat. Anyone wants the sauce recipe I have it written down.

Seasoning SS seems a bit hit and miss. I don't want the hassle.

Seems like a well made smooth bottomed cast iron pan might be the way to go. Sounds like I should try turning the heat down too, might end up cooking for a bit longer but that's fine.

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#2809266 8-Nov-2021 12:52

That's an interesting combo!

Honestly, I'd probably do that myself in a stainless pan; I only really use cast iron for direct heat stuff and don't cook anything that requires stirring or banging about since I'm quite precious about my seasoning. Mrs MDF may choose to use words like "obsessive". She got in quite a bit of trouble the time she left water sitting in my favourite egg pan 🤯!

Stainless probably will have some stick but clean up is much easier since you can use as much force as required or harsh dishwasher tablets.

Another option you might want to consider is enameled cast iron? It's a lot more forgiving than cast iron seasoning and I suspect will be less spendy than factory-polished cast iron.

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