Gas Bottle Placement Regulations

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mattwnz

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#2659899 19-Feb-2021 16:23

Froglotion: Earth stake can be a source of ignition. So it doesn't really matter if they say so or not. It's the same deal with fibre, there was a notice at some point saying it is considered a source of ignition too. Even though the power at which fibre here is run isn't considered high enough to be a source of ignition. It's all about butt covering and covering situations where a fault could cause a problem.

The whole reason for the exclusion zone is that if the cylinders vent, there is clearance. I've never seen a cylinder vent. Or ever heard of it happening. So it's all to cover than one in a million situation.

Possible gas leaking from the bottle, or hoses cracking? I have seen a lot of cracked gas hoses from age and exposure to elements.

Froglotion

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#2659901 19-Feb-2021 16:40

Yes that too, but the restrictions for appliances that can also leak is nonexistent. Gas water heater for example could leak, but has no restrictions like cylinders do. They do have flue exhaust restrictions though.

As for previous comment about condenser faulting. I wouldn't be too worried personally. Gas has to be leaking and the heatpump would have to fault at same time. You'd smell a gas leak IMO before it became a problem.

networkn

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#2659903 19-Feb-2021 16:43

As for previous comment about condenser faulting. I wouldn't be too worried personally. Gas has to be leaking and the heatpump would have to fault at same time. You'd smell a gas leak IMO before it became a problem.

Ah OK, I see. I wasn't aware that the consenser would have to be faulty to be an ignition source. That's reassuring.

BTW I DM'd you the pictures you asked about.

mclean

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#2659914 19-Feb-2021 17:03

...Gas has to be leaking and the heatpump would have to fault at same time. You'd smell a gas leak IMO before it became a problem.

I don't agree. A heat pump condenser in normal operation could very well be an ignition source. If gas is leaking nearby then smelling the gas is only going to work if you're there to smell it, and I would rather that wasn't me. There's no reason to not follow the separation rules.

Froglotion

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#2659915 19-Feb-2021 17:06

So in normal operation a condenser is creating sparks? That's a bit concerning if so. The rest is taken out of context really so I'm not going to comment.

gregmcc

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#2659936 19-Feb-2021 17:43

Froglotion: So in normal operation a condenser is creating sparks? That's a bit concerning if so. The rest is taken out of context really so I'm not going to comment.

There are a variety of switches that preform various functions in the out door units, any one of them could be switching enough load to generate a spark opening or closing that could ignite gas.

As far as an earth stake been an ignition source, I have *never* seen or heard of an earth stake been the possible ignition source, under normal conditions there would not be any electricity flowing thru the earth stake, under a fault condition somewhere in the house, there *could* be power flowing through the earth stake, but more than likely not as the return would be thru the service main neutral (via the MEN link in the distribution board). If there was also a fault with the MEN point and a fault in the house, power may flow thru the earth stake, but it would still be unlikely to be an ignition source, there would also have to be a fault at the earth stake, so 3 different faults all occurring at once, 1 of them could be a common occurrence the other 2 a very unlikely occurrence - It's just getting in to the realm of never likely to happen, just like a direct lightning strike on the gas cylinders, it will probably never happen, so no need to protect against it.

Sounds to me it is more of a case of someone who has little to no practical knowledge seeing an earth stake and making the broad assumption that it's a hazard and then declaring a new rule that it is so.

Got to remember lots of things in houses form part of the electrical installation, got a concrete slab floor? The reinforcement steel in that should be earthed, that will be in the gas zone, got the gas bottles near your swimming pool fence that is made of metal, that should be earthed, got an older house with metal water pipes, these are usually earthed and a very real possibility they are within the gas zone, all of these are electrically connected to the earth stake, so the gas company is trying to find a problem here when one doesn't exist, or simply ignoring other earthed items because they don't fit their defined "hazard"

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mclean

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#2659946 19-Feb-2021 18:18

NZS 5601.1 is specific about what constitutes an ignition source - it's any mechanical or electrical equipment that's not suitable for use in hazardous locations. That's what the separation distance applies to. That definitely includes heat pumps, but earth electrodes I don't know.

Froglotion

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#2659948 19-Feb-2021 18:34

Anything that has the potential to be an ignition source, counts as an ignition source. No matter how unlikely a fault is to occur. Just a pain I deal with in a daily basis. It's dumb, but no amount of arguing is going to overrule the pencil pushers so it's easier to just count everything and carry on.

panther2

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#2659991 19-Feb-2021 22:00

From Elgas
https://www.elgas.co.nz/resources/elgas-blog/184-nz-lpg-gas-bottle-installation-regulations-location-clearances/

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