Solar options for home in 2022.

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#3009792 14-Dec-2022 10:31

@Newtown The installation went really well except for the 35-degree roof pitch which they were not too happy about, but they accepted the job knowing this was the case. They were not happy with themselves when they saw it in person Hehe as they realized they under quoted it as it's not comfortable roof pitch to work on, so it took them longer to finish the job. It took three guys 12 hours starting at 9AM and finishing at 9PM in Cambridge and then driving back to Papamoa where they are based. We took care of their lunch and evening tea, and I was happy to pay a little extra $ in the end. They never asked for extra $ and were happily honoring the price they quoted but they did such an excellent job and even did some extras like moving a light switch, a double power point you see right next to the F17 formply photo below as they were originally where bottom half of formply is. They installed formply on bottom as well to cover off the 2 x battery inverters in near future when we are ready to pull the trigger.

The guys were good and were happy for me to commission the entire system online knowing my skillset while they did their bit inside garage and on the roof. The electrical guy working inside garage got the SMA Home Manager 2.0 & both inverters installed for me and ran my supplied ethernet cables to wall mounted switch rack which is a meter away from electrical board to the left. I commissioned the Home Manager first and then it automagically picked up both the inverters. I set the export limit @ 10kWh to cover both phases on the Sunny Portal.

Can you please confirm which firmware version are you running on your inverter and Home Manager? I upgraded the firmware on both the inverters but one of the inverters won't let me complete the installation wizard after firmware upgrade completed. Inverter is working fine though and reporting its status as ok so no issues with its operation etc. The SMA Home Manager firmware upgraded automatically although not to the latest version but a version prior. Not important as I read the release notes for latest firmware, and they just added support for a smart plug only available in Europe anyway. I have all the system owner and installer credentials for our SMA gear.

I need to find and buy a Raspberry PI now to setup SAE and start outputting to pvoutput.org to share our PV system with everyone else. Here is the link anyway to monitor and view data on sunnyplaces.com website. You will need to sign out of your SMA account on sunnyplaces.com website to view link below which is weird, but this is how SMA has designed it for now and I must sign out and view your sunnyplaces.com link as a guest user as well. I am waiting for installer to email me the drone photos of the roof along with COC, ROI and Waipa approval paperwork so I can submit it to Genesis to start getting paid for solar buy back to grid. I will post the drone photos of roof as well once I receive them.

Sunny Places

I was tracking our system's generation yesterday 13/12/22 which was first full day from 7AM with that the PV system of @compound (Maori Solar Panel 11.470kW (pvoutput.org)) as we are close enough that weather conditions are same, and our system is 20% bigger inverter size wise, so I had a good reference for performance monitoring for our system. Compound's system was well ahead of ours by around 4kWh until 12.30PM. After 12.30PM our North West array also kicked into high gear when the solar irradiance moved across there and it stayed mostly around 11kW generation constantly and we did hit peak of 12kW max of our inverter size limit for few minutes. We finished the day yesterday at 78.4kWh. The first screen shot below shows washing machine, ducted aircon, dishwasher, heat pump dryer all running at same time using 8.5kW load for 2 hours which our generation covered off with ease and still have capacity to sell back to the grid.

Do whatever you want to do man.

Newtown

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#3009945 14-Dec-2022 13:38

Thanks for the update, and well done for looking after the tradies :D

Compared to my puny system, your one is very impressive. Wish I had the roof space to add more panels.

Just checked on the firmware versions:

Home Manager 2.0: 2.09.2.R
Sunny Boy: 4.00.55.R

Did you enable automatic updates in Sunny Portal?

With HM2.0, you just have to let the device do it's own thing and let it update when it wants to. I updated my inverter to the latest by following the instructions in the pdf in the firmware zip file.

Are both of your inverters added as children to HM2.0?

A bit overcast in Cambridge? :)

billgates

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#3009955 14-Dec-2022 14:08

Yes, both inverters show as child under HM 2.0? Where do you even check version number for HM2.0 on Sunny Portal? I can find the version of inverters by only browsing directly to their IP's. Inverters came with old firmware and yep, I updated it with the same firmware version as you have mentioned. I used an iPad to do it and using its File app. Kicking myself as I should have used my trusty PC. One of the inverters updated all ok and i was able to set region to NZ but the second inverter will not let me pick any region. SMA is just using a default 50Hz profile for now. The 2nd inverter itself is producing all ok and its status is showing ok as well. I might log a ticket with SMA support to see what they suggest. I tried to re-apply the same firmware from PC but it failed which I am assuming is due to same firmware the inverter currently has. My HM2.0 also has the automatic update option ticket under Sunny Portal but doesn't look like it updated the inverter for the fifteen or so hours I allowed it before manually doing the firmware update myself.

Gotta say that SMA Energy app is good. It's quite polished and has a lot of options to view various data.

It's cloudy and raining on and off here in Cambridge. I always untick the below box on Sunny Places to view the generation for total generation so far and leave it ticked for current generation like you have. Below is the current output from Sunny Portal and the expected generation for today is supposed to be around 20kWh. It is going to rain the entire week so very luckily the installers picked a good day for installation. Your puny system is putting mine to shame currently. The weather must be good over in Wellington. Your system is doing much better than Wayne in your screenshot considering it's the same size system in same region.

Edit - I downloaded Sunny Home Manager and it confirmed the firmware version is 2.09.2.R. The reason I think HM2.0 is not doing any automatic updates is because a new firmware released in November 2022 which it has not downloaded on your HM2.0 and mine. I dont know of any method to manually update firmware on HM2.0. Not a major as new firmware is of no benefit in NZ market.

Do whatever you want to do man.

Newtown

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#3009970 14-Dec-2022 14:59

You'll find the firmware version in Device Overview > [HM/Inverter] > Parameters

I haven't found a way to manually update HM. But I think it's controlled by SMA HQ and they roll it out in batches. It doesn't bother me. There'll be a line in the logbook once a device is updated.

With the inverter, you could try Sunny Explorer, a PC app? Direct link to app. See support articles here and here. I would try to get the installer to help before getting in touch with SMA Support as I haven't found the support that good.

billgates

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#3012118 19-Dec-2022 21:44

Here is the 7-day update.

Today was the best day of generation so far @ 95.3kWh with some cloud cover during morning and early afternoon.

i managed to sort the quick installation wizard completion and set the region to NZ using Firefox on second inverter. Currently I do have another issue with the second inverter's production registration with SMA where for some strange reason it picked up the fact that this inverter was shipped from factory to wholesaler around April 2021 so how can it be installed 1.5 years later so it decided to start the 5 years warranty from 16th April 2021 instead of the commissioning date of 12/12/2022. It also did not apply for the additional 5 years warranty as that policy was only brought in by SMA sometime around November 2021. The first inverter registered all ok and it automagically applied the additional 5 years warranty as well. I have sent the details through to SMA's warranty department in Germany who will hopefully sort out the updated commissioning date and additional 5 years warranty on second inverter.

I am still waiting for the COC and other approval paperwork from the installer so that I can submit it to Gensis and start getting paid for the solar buy back. I hope Genesis will backdate and pay us for the excess generation we are currently sending back to them.

Below is generation data for 7 days. We had 3 days of rain with cloud cover.

@Newtown One of my neighbours driving past our home saw me today taking a photo of the roof across the road from our camera and turned around his car and offered to take drone photos which he had in the car so got the roof photos off him below.

Do whatever you want to do man.

Newtown

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#3012227 20-Dec-2022 10:53

@billgates – love those drone photos. Aren't you glad that you have a gable roof instead of those complicated ones as your neighbours. You get a bonus point for having a different house design than those cookie cutter houses ;)

Can you please remind me which direction your panels are pointing to?

My HM2.0 was missing from the registration portal, so I added it and ran into a similar situation like you where the factory date needed to be updated to match the commissioning date. Anyway, I sent them some evidence in the form of a screenshot when the inverter was commissioned and SMA has now updated the warranty.

On another note, if Sunny Portal misbehaves or works oddly I tend to look at the Status here:
https://status.sunny-operations.de

If there's nothing showing up on the status dashboard, a reset of the HM2.0 tends to fix things.

billgates

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#3012707 21-Dec-2022 12:56

@Newtown Thanks. All the houses to our back (around 200 or 300 homes) are all retirement villages. We are the first house on the street that borders the retirement village. Even our installers made a comment when they were on the roof that every roof, they can see is black and ours was the only white/grey colour roof and asked why. I said it attracts less heat in summer and something different to look at.

We have 2 PV arrays. The 24 x 415W panels on long side you see above the garage is facing Northwest for late morning to late evening sun and get no shade at all during sunset from our other gable roof you see as garage gable roof is taller due to also having attic space. The 12 x 415W panels on the second gable roof panels are facing Southeast for morning to early afternoon sun.

I set my password for the My SMA Service portal on my trust PC after you reminded me to register my 2 inverters and HM2.0. I was not signed into my password manager, so it only saved the password in my local browser. I then received an automated email from SMA very next morning saying they have completed the product registration but i was still in bed on an iPad so clicked on the link and did the forget password as I thought to myself, I will sign into password manager on iPad and save the new reset password for good now. What that does is lock your account from re-using the old password originally set even if you do not click on the forget password email SMA sends you. Anyway, I clicked on forget password link and it just kept opening the same loop again asking to enter email address and it kept sending the password reset email. After about ten tries, it locked the functionality for few hours to do password reset email. After that functionality unlocked, I then jumped on my trust PC and tried to login with the original password, and it said wrong password.

I called SMA Australia on their 1300 free phone number and the engineer was super helpful. He also could not believe that password reset link was broken and stuck in a loop, but he confirmed, and it was the case. He sent a message in chat to one of the German engineers who was online who sent me another password rest link with a .de extension and that thankfully let me reset the password ok and I was able to check the extended warranty registration. Annoying why SMA does not let you use the same login for sunnyportal/sunnyplaces as SMA My Service. Of course, the second inverter's warranty was now set to start from 16th April 2021 and expire in 2026 and it had not applied the 5 years warranty extension as SMA's 2nd 5-year free program, was only applicable for gear commissioned after November 2021. I sent an email to warranty@sma email as advised by the Australian engineer with same commissioning screenshot from sunnyportal.com as you suggested and couple of days later, I received a very unhelpful reply with extremely broken English that they do not accept that screenshot and they want an invoice instead. I sent them the invoice which only listed the 2 SMA inverters with no mention of serial number and they must have accepted it as when I got up the next day, there was an email from SMA stating your production registration has been updated for one of the gears so I logged in and voila the second inverter now shows correct commissioning date and warranty expiry in November 2032.

Thanks for linking that alternative link. It will come in handy one day. I am still waiting for a reply from my installer as he has not replied back when he will send me the COC, Waipa networks approval paperwork etc so I can submit it to Genesis.

Do whatever you want to do man.

neb

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#3012932 21-Dec-2022 19:18

billgates:
@Newtown Thanks. All the houses to our back (around 200 or 300 homes) are all retirement villages. We are the first house on the street that borders the retirement village.

That must make it a great place to live, little noise or commotion, no commuter rush early morning and late afternoon, and neighbours who are (almost) always around for a chat.

JimmyC

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3024834 20-Jan-2023 14:41

Great to find a solar thread! We're looking at solar options whilst banks are giving people free money for such things, and have a quote from the local (Tauranga) Harrison's franchise thus far. I have a couple of question for those in the know.

We're rural so water is tanked. When we lose power (2-3 times a year) we lose running water which is the biggest hassle, so we're looking at a battery backed system (PW2). From our power bill, we see we never use more than 5kW at peak times in winter, so our system has been rated at 7kW to cover this from solar, but with overhead to charge the battery. I see some of the installs in this thread are well over 10kW in size. Is that because they're not battery backed? Aside from having plenty of power for future proofing, and / or to push back to the grid, what's the advantage?

Also, we have 3 phase to the house (new build). The 3rd phase is blanked off currently, apparently that's for hot water but we use gas for that. The quote is for one inverter (Fronius 24+), and we discussed potentially rejigging the main board so critical gear is on one phase. I also see some / most of the installs here with 2 inverters. Should we be looking at two inverters for complete coverage, or is that overkill?

Edit: Sorry, I remember now the PW2 only supplies power to one phase, hence only one inverter...

CrazyM

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#3024844 20-Jan-2023 15:10

If you are wanting the greatest self consumption (and therefore fastest payback) then its best to put all your loads and your inverter on a single phase. If you never go over 5kW load then that should be easy.

When you have 2 or 3 phases it gets harder as your house loads can only use solar generated on the same phase. So you can end up selling to the grid on one phase (for $) while buying from the grid (for $$$) at the same time, which is sub-optimal. Particularly if you are having a Powerwall because it also can only charge and discharge onto the phase it is connected to.

It is in general good practice to put as many panels up as you can reasonably fit/afford. Only at certain times of the day/year be producing their maximum rated capacity. If due to weather and time of day your panels were only producing 50% of their rated capacity then your 7kW system will only be producing 3.5kW, whereas a 10kW system would be producing 5kW etc....

billgates

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#3024922 20-Jan-2023 18:43

@JimmyC I can highly recommend https://www.baysolar.co.nz/ who are based out of Papamoa. They do installs in BOP mostly but also cover Waikato and Hawkes Bay. Bay Solar did our solar install in Cambridge and were the cheapest of the 5 quotes including from Harrison’s who were almost $6k more expensive. The 2 brothers Sean & Daniel that own Bay Solar have no other employees or commercial office so have extremely low over heads. They also install for Zen Solar and recently completed the 100kW install for ACC’s new building in Hamilton and a 220kW install in Rotorua.

Are you able to post a screenshot of your Harrison’s quote so we can see the price and what hardware is being proposed by them?

There are number of benefits of using at least 2 phases of your 3 phase for solar.

1. You can export up to 5kW per phase so 10kW total export

2. You can size up up to 10kW of inverter power per phase if needed although from your usage this will not be of any benefit.

3. You can install either a 7.2kW EVSE for charging on each phase for your future EV’s which you will eventually get so a charger per car if you need to charge them at the same time? Putting 2 x EVSE is not possible on single phase on 32amp MCB each when your single phase circuit for entire house will be on 63amps. At most you will be able to install 2 x 7.2kW EVSE on 16mp MCB each but your charging output will be lower. Biggest benefit of 2 phase would be a single 2 phase EVSE from the likes of Evnex or Tesla Gen 3 so your EV can charge at 14.4kW output if your EV AC charger can handle it though most only handle up to 11kW.

4. You can evenly load high power items across both phases so won’t run into an issue with maxing out your 63amp circuit on single phase. Eventually you would want to end up with a HWC for hot water when you decide so having 2 phases to spread out between your oven, induction cooktop, aircons, EV’s, dishwasher, dryer, washing machine and water pump works out really well like in our case.

BYD batteries are better than PW2 from chemistry point of view in regards to no chance of fire being Lithium Iron Phophate and not have Cobalt included in the mix. It is also cheaper than PW2 even if you combine it a hybrid inverter from Fronius, Sungrow or another brand.

Why is Harrison’s quoting you a Fronius Gen 24+ instead of Gen24 only when you do not need the hybrid capability since the PW2 has a inverter built in to charge its own batteries? You will save $ on Gen24 instead of buying Gen24+if you do decide to go with PW2.

I would recommend putting the biggest PV array you can afford. Adding EV’s in future and HWC or more aircons will need more power. A 8kW inverter connected to 10kW of PV array will cover your future needs well on single phase or 2 x 5kW inverters connected to 12kW or 13kW panels on 2 phase.

Do whatever you want to do man.

JimmyC

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3025661 23-Jan-2023 09:05

@billgates, really appreciate your input.

I might have got the Fronius model incorrect previously but here's the breakdown -

Panel upgrades:

Powerwall -

Have contacted Bay Solar for a second quote.

JimmyC

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3027522 26-Jan-2023 14:34

Bay Solar... definitely cheaper.

Can't feed back up to 11kW AC to the house like the Fronius and PW2 option but since we don't peak over 5kWh during winter I'm not sure we need it?

$40k is not a target as such, but it is the amount Westpac are offering interest free for 5 years. Looking at this setup, would you suggest adding / changing anything for even better bang, or is this pretty optimal?

JimmyC

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Ultimate Geek

#3027731 27-Jan-2023 08:46

Interesting discovery with Sean from Bay Solar. He took one look at our bill and noted the 4.6kW we were pulling was in 30 minute increments, therefore we actually draw 9.2kWh peak in winter. Harrison's didn't pick that up...

Anyhoo, we'll be adding another panel for 8kWh total solar and bumping the battery to 19.2kWh which means we should be able to power ourselves largely independently, all for $35k.

Thanks for the recommendation @billgates

billgates

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#3027735 27-Jan-2023 08:57

@JimmyC I am glad you got multiple quotes! Bay Solar did an awesome job with our installation. Let Sean know you have been referenced by homeowners from their recent Cambridge 14.94kW PV installation.

The fact that you are adding a battery, the Fronius Gen 24's 3kW maximum backup feature will be of no benefit unless your battery runs out completely. Risen Energy are Tier 1 panel manufacturer so excellent quality stuff. Are they all black panels? If so and you are not worried about aesthetics (only if you have an ebony coloured roof, all black panels look good), then you can save some more $ and go with silver panels like we did.

I see the PW2 has gone up in price btw. It's normal RRP was $20k incl install when we got our quote couple of months ago, but Harrisons/Tesla had a promotion that first 50 installs were going to cost $19,500. I know that Tesla PW2 pricing is set by Tesla so Harrisons offers the same fixed price for it everywhere. The supply issues have bumped it up by another $382.

Do whatever you want to do man.

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