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Geektastic
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  #2697354 23-Apr-2021 18:44
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mattwnz:

Geektastic: Long long ago, in Galaxy far away, I worked as a valuer. The definition of open market value we were held to by the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors is (or was, it may have been tweaked since but this will be close)

'The estimated amount for which an asset or liability should exchange on the valuation date between a willing buyer and a willing seller in an arm's length transaction, after proper marketing and where the parties had each acted knowledgeably, prudently and without compulsion. '

Interestingly and merely for information, when you borrow money to buy a house in the UK, the bank will send a valuer to inspect and value the property in person. This at least helps temper some of the mystery around prices I often note here in NZ but is mainly to provide comfort to the lender that the asset you’re offering as security is worth enough and is in reasonable condition etc.


 


They used to do that in NZ too. Not sure if they do that today? When my parents purchased a house in the mid 80's the bank manager had to come before they would approve the loan, and that was when interest was in the double digits. 



We’ve had 7 figure mortgages here and they’ve sent nobody!







Handle9
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  #2697356 23-Apr-2021 18:58
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Geektastic:

We’ve had 7 figure mortgages here and they’ve sent nobody!

 

Different markets have different rules. The UK market has very different norms including extended chains.

 

It's not like these valuations helped the UK banks in the GFC when a number folded.


Geektastic
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  #2697375 23-Apr-2021 20:16
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Handle9:

Geektastic:

We’ve had 7 figure mortgages here and they’ve sent nobody!


Different markets have different rules. The UK market has very different norms including extended chains.


It's not like these valuations helped the UK banks in the GFC when a number folded.



They’re not intended to help the banks in that way. They’re to ensure that what you’re offering as security if you default will likely pay what you them when they sell it.

What they do do is provide a level of formal oversight to house prices rather than leaving it to agents to hype things.







Handle9
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  #2697378 23-Apr-2021 20:19
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Geektastic:

What they do do is provide a level of formal oversight to house prices rather than leaving it to agents to hype things.

 

It hasn't made a material difference to the affordability of London compared to Auckland. It just adds another ticket to be punched.


alasta
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  #2697387 23-Apr-2021 20:43
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I was required to have a valuation done because the property I am buying is a new build so there isn't any historic sales data. Low equity loans generally also require a valuation.

 

As with all loan conditions the bank's computer will apply a formula to your particular situation to determine whether a valuation is necessary.


quickymart
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  #2697708 25-Apr-2021 06:52
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/property-bargain-auckland-waterfront-apartment-sells-for-5000/DI2BSCTKEGGEIK7DRBSP5AHE3A/

 

$5000 for a 2 bedroom apartment in central Auckland? Somethin' ain't right here.


Fred99
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  #2697709 25-Apr-2021 07:16
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quickymart:

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/property-bargain-auckland-waterfront-apartment-sells-for-5000/DI2BSCTKEGGEIK7DRBSP5AHE3A/

 

$5000 for a 2 bedroom apartment in central Auckland? Somethin' ain't right here.

 

 

Leasehold with fixed costs (including very high ground rent of $423/week) of $637/week and a bill for a share of building remediation costs that will arrive in the mail for a flat that could be rented out for $700/week.  The icing on the cake for this incredible investment opportunity is that the new owner can look forward to the ground rent going up again in a few years.


 
 
 

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.
Batman
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  #2697712 25-Apr-2021 08:10
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Fred99:

 

Leasehold with fixed costs (including very high ground rent of $423/week) of $637/week and a bill for a share of building remediation costs that will arrive in the mail for a flat that could be rented out for $700/week.  The icing on the cake for this incredible investment opportunity is that the new owner can look forward to the ground rent going up again in a few years.

 

 

it's also got "leaky building" issues


Fred99
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  #2697722 25-Apr-2021 09:00
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Batman:

 

Fred99:

 

Leasehold with fixed costs (including very high ground rent of $423/week) of $637/week and a bill for a share of building remediation costs that will arrive in the mail for a flat that could be rented out for $700/week.  The icing on the cake for this incredible investment opportunity is that the new owner can look forward to the ground rent going up again in a few years.

 

 

it's also got "leaky building" issues

 

 

Yep - and the $700/week potential rental is gross, not net after paying possible agency fees and allowing for some period of vacancy between tenants. You'd probably be making a loss from day one.

 

It might have worked as an investment to rent out as an "Air B&B", assuming that the very high Air B&B short term rental prices some landlords have enjoyed in NZ are sustainable. 


quickymart
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  #2698934 27-Apr-2021 19:05
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It's not just landlords, looks like first home buyers may be playing cautious too (paywalled):

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/landlords-retreat-from-market-but-so-do-first-home-buyers-mortgage-adviser-survey-out/FGQTINXD4HMNDLNPFQDL73ROM4/

 

Edit: also, referring to the graph in here:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300287002/bnz-withdraws-sevenyear-home-loans-because-nobody-wants-them

 

I had no idea interest rates were over 10% in 2008 - mind you actual prices were much more realistic back then.


quickymart
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  #2700167 30-Apr-2021 15:51
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Interesting long read in the Herald about how prices got to where they are today (paywalled):

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/house-prices-soar-over-40-years-in-new-zealand-home-truths-timeline/QTGWH52CJYQNZDCV3EBH3GDKIY/


quickymart
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  #2700337 1-May-2021 07:23
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(Not paywalled): now this is awesome, a landlord and tenant work together to make purchasing the rental they live in possible. I think my landlord would do the same if I was ever in a position to buy :)

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/every-family-deserves-a-house-landlord-sells-rental-to-tenant-below-market-price/ZD52P5P2HRUAKFZSBO5BTOHA2M/

 

Apparently FOMO may be starting to fade too: https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/300280314/is-it-too-late-to-get-onto-the-property-ladder

 

 


mattwnz
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  #2700581 2-May-2021 01:35
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quickymart:

 

(Not paywalled): now this is awesome, a landlord and tenant work together to make purchasing the rental they live in possible. I think my landlord would do the same if I was ever in a position to buy :)

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/every-family-deserves-a-house-landlord-sells-rental-to-tenant-below-market-price/ZD52P5P2HRUAKFZSBO5BTOHA2M/

 

Apparently FOMO may be starting to fade too: https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/300280314/is-it-too-late-to-get-onto-the-property-ladder

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apparently FOMO is being replaced by "Fear of Paying too much".

 

The problem is many people could have been paying too much for some time, that is how property prices have gone up 20% in a year, which even the PM said just isn't right and can't continue. 


mattwnz
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  #2700582 2-May-2021 01:39
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quickymart:

 

It's not just landlords, looks like first home buyers may be playing cautious too (paywalled):

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/landlords-retreat-from-market-but-so-do-first-home-buyers-mortgage-adviser-survey-out/FGQTINXD4HMNDLNPFQDL73ROM4/

 

Edit: also, referring to the graph in here:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300287002/bnz-withdraws-sevenyear-home-loans-because-nobody-wants-them

 

I had no idea interest rates were over 10% in 2008 - mind you actual prices were much more realistic back then.

 

 

 

 

Savers could also get close to that osrt of interest on savings by having their money in the bank before the GFC. I remember when Rabobank online savings started, and it was nearly at that level.

 

When savings rates are at that level, then mum and dad savers and investors can keep their money in the bank, and it encourages saving. Now, Mum and Dad savers have been forced to take their money out of the bank due to essentially losing money and buying power, and they are now forced to invest in higher risk things. Many have therefore purchased houses, because it is the only other form of investing they know.

 

As a result of all this, NZ are some of the worst savers in the world. We were pretty bad before, but it is even worse now. The amount of money in term deposits has plummeted over this last year.


mattwnz
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  #2700584 2-May-2021 01:55
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Fred99:

 

 

 

It might have worked as an investment to rent out as an "Air B&B", assuming that the very high Air B&B short term rental prices some landlords have enjoyed in NZ are sustainable. 

 

 

 

 

Do air bnbs have to meet the 'healthy homes' standards which are now required for rentals, or is it just long term rentals (eg longer than a month)?
If not, then won't many of these rentals just be removed from the rental market and become temporary air bnb type accommodation? Or people will just leave them empty and keep then as a weekender for the capital gains in the future? I would like to see the healthy homes standards required for all rented out accommodation, 

 

IMO this is why I would like to see a vacant house and land tax, and more taxing/commercial rating around airbnbs, so we can get their houses back into the NZ housing stock for living in again. 


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