Solar options for home in 2022.

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4792 posts

Uber Geek

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#3027784 27-Jan-2023 10:27

This seems like a good place to ask. I am about to have a Huawei Sun2000 based install on an external shed but the smart meter needed for import/export reporting is inside the house. They need to talk by RS485 and I can't easily run a pair from A to B. I am hoping to find a little RS485 bridge pairing using wifi/ethernet (There is ethernet in the shed) and was wondering if anyone had specific recommendations of devices for this? I can see a HEAP of devices that purport to bridge RS485 to eth/wifi/LORA and in fact I used these myself in for a product I build - BUT I am not 100% sure if they all can be configured to simply pair in a completely transparent mode and that's what I am hoping someone here may have had to solve.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

JimmyC

726 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3027834 27-Jan-2023 12:59

billgates:

@JimmyC I am glad you got multiple quotes! Bay Solar did an awesome job with our installation. Let Sean know you have been referenced by homeowners from their recent Cambridge 14.94kW PV installation.

I shall indeed.

billgates:

The fact that you are adding a battery, the Fronius Gen 24's 3kW maximum backup feature will be of no benefit unless your battery runs out completely. Risen Energy are Tier 1 panel manufacturer so excellent quality stuff. Are they all black panels? If so and you are not worried about aesthetics (only if you have an ebony coloured roof, all black panels look good), then you can save some more $ and go with silver panels like we did.

They are all black panels so they'll look good on our iron sand coloured roof. They won't be easily visible but still...

Thanks again. I'll post back after the install.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

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#3037949 16-Feb-2023 21:55

The recent situation related to Cyclone Gabrielle has prompted us to rethink the upgrade of our current PV installation. We have a 5.2kW system at present that comprises 14x 370W Jinko panels, a 5kW SMA Sunny Boy inverter and a Paladin diverter. The amount of quality knowledge in this thread suggests it as being a valuable source of information.

At the time we installed this we had just the Leaf which has a charging limit of 3.5kW so easily covered by the PV but since getting the Polestar2 in mid-2022 our 7kW charger can run to capacity so we always have a shortfall from the 5kW of PV. Our plan is to increase the PV capacity to around 8.5kW by putting another bank of panels further back on the roof of the 9m x 9m shed. The installer of our existing PV identified an issue in that our lines company, Powerco, have a 5kW per phase limit and although our property has 3 phase we only have a single phase running to the shed where the PV and inverter is situated. Extending the 3 phase out to this shed would involve trenching across an asphalt driveway which we're not prepared to do and would also require upgrading the existing inverter with further setup complications.

So, our original installer seems to have put us in the too hard basket and communication has stalled so our usual sparky has put together a plan of attack in conjunction with a solar specialist at New Plymouth's Ideal Electrical branch. This will involve running the extra 3.5kW of PV through another SMA inverter which will communicate wirelessly with a CT clamp to shut the 3.5kW inverter's output down if the 5kW export threshold is reached. Even though this should only be the case during peak daylight and if EV charging or Paladin diversion isn't 'consuming' that generation excess the possibility of throttling PV output in this way doesn't sit well with me.

As the storm raged through Taranaki on Tuesday morning it resulted in a 2-3 hour power outage which combined with the dire situation of extended power outage the east coast is presently suffering set us thinking. Being rural power outages are not infrequent but usually of short duration but they result in our pumped water supply going down and any extended outage could see us losing the contents of two large chest freezers with substantial meat and other produce of significant value.

Previously we have been advised that battery storage isn't viable for charging EVs but what about a prioritisation system that ensures the battery only charges from excess PV (so not when the EV charger or Paladin are consuming), and definitely can't be drawn down from for EV charging. My reasoning there is that charging the 69kWh Polestar2 battery will drain the home battery in short order for little economic benefit so any shortfall in PV generation is better met from our Ecotricity off-peak rate. The primary draw down from the battery would be to offset all home consumption during peak tariff rates. Our monthly import and export totals would seem to make this very possible. Also Ecotricity's off-peak rates apply 9pm-7am, 11am-5pm weekdays, and all weekend. Export tariff is 10.5c.

As background on the above chart, export meter fitted in Sept 2021, Paladin fitted in Feb 2022, Polestar purchased in July 2022.

The main reasoning for putting a battery into our system is for security of supply with making use of our >5kW export being a useful side effect. Thoughts, suggestions and criticism welcome.

Incidentally when we were sourcing quotes for our PV two years ago one of the companies contacted was Harrisons. Following an offer to do a site visit back then we have not heard from or seen them since. By the experiences of earlier posts in this thread that may well have been a good thing.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

billgates

4705 posts

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#3038058 17-Feb-2023 10:59

@HarmLessSolutions

1. Which model is your current EVSE? Is it a solar smart EVSE?

2. You mentioned currently that the shed (where panels and inverter is located) only has a single phase running to it from your home. I take it, two phases in your home are using grid power all the time and the third phase connected to solar pv in shed is your critical loads back home like fridge, lights, internet router etc?

Do whatever you want to do man.

BlueShift

1692 posts

Uber Geek

#3038112 17-Feb-2023 11:13

HarmLessSolutions:

The recent situation related to Cyclone Gabrielle has prompted us to rethink the upgrade of our current PV installation.

Looking at the pic, the recent situation with Cyclone Gabrielle would prompt me to worry that your panel array might decide to fly off and visit the neighbour's place!

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3038129 17-Feb-2023 12:01

BlueShift:

HarmLessSolutions:

The recent situation related to Cyclone Gabrielle has prompted us to rethink the upgrade of our current PV installation.

Looking at the pic, the recent situation with Cyclone Gabrielle would prompt me to worry that your panel array might decide to fly off and visit the neighbour's place!

The framing and trusses that the panels are mounted on are well constructed and bolted down and have survived 2 major southerly wind events so far. The SE that Gabrielle generated peaked at over 120kmh here and caused significant tree damage but the PV array held steady. The bigger risk would be by way of the stand of 35m+ poplars to the SW of the shed which would definitely put a kink in things if they fell.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

pipe60

127 posts

Master Geek

#3038257 17-Feb-2023 16:11

Might be easier to cover short duration power cuts with a generator, you can run hybrid inverters with out batteries but still use the back up circuit when you loose the grid tie,have you looked at option for using the EV batteries for backup such as https://www.facebook.com/groups/NZEVOwners/posts/3300238440243447/

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3038258 17-Feb-2023 16:21

pipe60:

Might be easier to cover short duration power cuts with a generator, you can run hybrid inverters with out batteries but still use the back up circuit when you loose the grid tie,have you looked at option for using the EV batteries for backup such as https://www.facebook.com/groups/NZEVOwners/posts/3300238440243447/

A fossil fueled generator is totally contrary to the direction we're heading. The only fossil fuel consumption we have is a chainsaw and a clearing saw (with a battery clearing saw presently on order).

V2G would be a great solution but this tech is still a way off in NZ from what I can gather. Stitching something together with an inverter is fine for running an appliance or two but our plan to go to an 'islanded' system that can run our entire home in the case of a power outage.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Talkiet

4792 posts

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#3038261 17-Feb-2023 16:25

The demonstrably worse solutions (Battery type solutions as emergency power compared to a generator) won't get any better without some people insisting on using them - I'm glad there are people out there doing that so we can all benefit in the future.

(I have just bought an EV and have ordered a medium sized solar install - I reallllly wanted to make battery storage or V2H work, but they currently make even less sense than PV solar so skipped on batteries for now)

Cheers - N

ps. I have a generator and it's still (for me) the best emergency power option.

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

billgates

4705 posts

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#3038280 17-Feb-2023 17:19

The generator has a noise complaint issue at night in an urban environment atleast, fuel storage/purchase problem as well only limited number of appliances that can be connected to the generator with long running power leads. Below article details how petrol stations were shut due to no power or network connectivity so once your fuel runs out, you are out of luck.

I know couple of people on twitter who were without power for over 50 hours and ran their house with a single Tesla Powerwall 2 (13.5kWh usable) and solar PV by using minimal appliances during night and ramping up appliance use during day when the Powerwall was getting charged and excess remaining solar powering on any appliance, they wanted to use during the day without worrying about running long power leads or fuel storage/purchase issues. Not to mention there will be no noise complaints from neighbors at night with a battery storage system.

Yes, batteries are expensive from a ROI point of view and if it were not for my wife asking me to not buy the battery due to the $ and wait couple of years, I would have had the batteries installed as well with the solar PV. I have mentioned this in an earlier page on this thread that climate change is a thing and NZ is not special and we have seen what Auckland Flooding and the cyclone has brought upon us. It is not going to get better. My wife has now asked me to expedite the battery purchase after reading about the extended power outages so within 12 months, we will be looking at adding that.

V2L from the likes of BYD Atto3 is fantastic option where if you had to drive to high ground with your family close by, you have a 60kWh battery pack to survive by as well.

Fuel companies facing power outages in Hawke's Bay plead for coordination | RNZ News

Do whatever you want to do man.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3038285 17-Feb-2023 17:35

billgates:

The generator has a noise complaint issue at night in an urban environment atleast, fuel storage/purchase problem as well only limited number of appliances that can be connected to the generator with long running power leads. Below article details how petrol stations were shut due to no power or network connectivity so once your fuel runs out, you are out of luck.

....

Another issue for fossil fueled generators is that fuel gets stale and becomes unusable so unless you've got a system set up to regularly use that fuel, which is difficult if your vehicles are EVs, then you're well likely to find your generator inoperable or at least running poorly when you need it most. Regular scheduled maintenance of an ICE is also something easily forgotten about. Consider too that a generator is pretty much a dead investment apart from the odd occasion it is needed whereas a PV and battery supported home electricity supply constantly returns on its initial cost with very little ongoing further financial input.

News articles are already suggesting the wisdom of micro-grids and having a proportion of dwellings with PV and/or battery storage is the first step towards that ideal. You can be sure that many people are witnessing the current issues resulting from the cyclone and thinking 'what if'. Nothing like a short sharp shock to focus people's minds on their own level of resilience.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

neb

11294 posts

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#3038287 17-Feb-2023 17:40

billgates:
The generator has a noise complaint issue at night in an urban environment atleast

With power and phones out, how will they complain to anyone?

Seriously though, I doubt anyone will complain during a civil defence emergency, particularly if you offer to charge their phones for them.

Talkiet

4792 posts

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#3038300 17-Feb-2023 18:08

As I have mentioned before I used a generator for about 2 weeks after the Chch quakes. In a genuinely bad situation like the quakes and in the cyclone areas I feel noise complaints would be the last thing on anyone's mind.

For me, A generator is a $1500 (generous) solution that works regardless of weather or time of day.

Solar + batteries are a $25000 solution.

That said... V2L is brilliant for this sort of thing. It's the only thing that annoys me about my EV purchase (The model I wanted didn't have any V2L capability)

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

neb

11294 posts

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#3038306 17-Feb-2023 18:17

HarmLessSolutions:
News articles are already suggesting the wisdom of micro-grids and having a proportion of dwellings with PV and/or battery storage is the first step towards that ideal.

Before they bring that in they need to pass a law making it an offence to endlessly tell everyone you know how much power storage you've got and how you've got power right now even though everyone around you hasn't and is yours back yet because we're doing fine and isn't it great to have a ton of battery storage.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3038317 17-Feb-2023 18:43

neb:
HarmLessSolutions:

News articles are already suggesting the wisdom of micro-grids and having a proportion of dwellings with PV and/or battery storage is the first step towards that ideal.
Before they bring that in they need to pass a law making it an offence to endlessly tell everyone you know how much power storage you've got and how you've got power right now even though everyone around you hasn't and is yours back yet because we're doing fine and isn't it great to have a ton of battery storage.

That law should be scheduled just after the one which prevents your local petrol head from crowing about how many horsepower their fossil fueled dinosaur has together with using a loud exhaust to underscore their folly. These are the same people who will bleat loudest when the power supply goes down, because they can't plug their home appliances into their vehicle like their neighbours with these 'glorified shopping carts' can. Welcome to the future Mr V8!

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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