![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
Octopus say the rates are fixed for a year. Power prices are likely to keep going up.
Looks like peak is longer than EK:
On the plus side, weekends there are no peak rates, it's all off-peak or night
EK has 42 hours of peak each week, Octopus has 40. So it's a balance of EK free hour vs Octopus longer weekday peak / no weekend peak / cheaper prices. The analysis of what is best would be difficult to do accurately without detailed power usage on an hourly basis, though then you have to take into account any behaviors that might change as a result of not having a free hour.
I ran Octupus rates (including no peak weekends) against my usage over the May billing period and current EKiwi rates proved 14% cheaper. After new rates come into force for me on 24 June, EKiwi will remain 8% cheaper. Moreover, some active load moving using timers will still be necessary with Octupus to make effective use of night rates.
So Genesis is not Frank enough?
insane: Huh, quite interesting indeed!
Even through Frank Energy and Genesis Energy are one and the same, there's a $520 / year difference for me. I guess it's similar to Spark & Skinny, with the only difference being there is zero difference in service between the power coming out of the walls or gas through the lines.
I could have apparently saved another $30 by using two different providers.
Just changed.to Frank... But annoyed Genesis had me in such an inappropriate plan for the last 4 years. Could have saved $400 by just changing Genesis plans alone.
Nokia 7 Plus
Nexus 6P 32Gb
Nexus 6 Phone
Nexus 5 Phone
Nexus 7 2013 Tablet
Samsung TAB A 8"
Samsung TAB A 10"
& many Windows laptops, Desktops etc
AklBen:
What's interesting about the variable rates plans that are starting to become mainstream (other than in areas that have already had day/night meters for yonks) is that you've got to be into the gamified/do the work aspect of the pricing (for power companies it means that as a customer you're heavily engaged). Yes you can achieve great savings if you do the work, but if you don't, you end up paying the same or more.
If you get an electric car, and it being the biggest consumer of electricity, then its a really simple choice to move towards a on/off peak plan.
Ray Taylor
There is no place like localhost
Spreadsheet for Comparing Electricity Plans Here
Despite, starting the thread on the 3rd of April, I got distracted and never auctioned anything (was leaning towards electric kiwi movemaster).
Looked back into the situation tonight. Surprised how much Electric kiwi rates have moved in that time.
Ran a simple model, where I used my most recent bill (29 days, 1130kWh) and assumed my consumption would be evenly distributed across the day. Key players:
Was a bit torn. My model is a bit crude, but quite a bit of effort is going to be needed to move enough power to the night so my assumption holds true.
Is it worth the effort of timers etc (and capital cost to get a hot water cylinder timer), to save cira $27 a month, vs a flat rate plan?
By hammering the free power period, Electric kiwi or Contact move master could be the best deals, but how much of my power would i consume in that period? Hot water cylinder isn't big enough to heat only once a day, and is only 3kW, so will need a mid-day boost. Charger in EV is only 3.6kW...
Ultimatly I signed up to Octopus.
With an EV and electric hot water, I figured I could shift a decent chunk of my usage into the night. I like how they didn't have peak times in the weekend, and am often out from 9-11 weekdays anyway, so didn't care about that time being peak.
And across the board, rates were a bit cheaper than electric kiwi.
For my area, incl GST:
Still haven't got my email though, hopefully it will turn up in the morning.
I will get a hot water cylinder timer, and see how I go.
I don't have solar, but the 17c buyback rate is massive for those that do is massive (especially given they are only charging 14.3c for power in the middle of the day. I doubt this can be sustainable.
And for very low users, the $0 daily fee is big news too.
raytaylor:
If you get an electric car, and it being the biggest consumer of electricity, then its a really simple choice to move towards a on/off peak plan.
Really depends on how much mileage you do in it.
Last month, we averaged 40kWh / day. To cover my wife commuting to work, our EV only uses about 3kWh.
Should note we often top off (to 80% weekdays, o 100% weekend), if we come home, as the range of our car is so low, so that won't be night rate. I imagine long range EV owners charge almost entirely at night.
Our tired Leaf battery only takes abut 16kWh to fill (cira 100km), so we pritty much never draw more than that in a single day from our house with the leaf.
When family member's come to visit us from a city 230km away with their bigger battery EV, that would use about 32kWh to top them back off after the one way trip), which is a bit more substantial.
If somebody was doing a long distance commute (140+Km round trip), or if somebody had say a bigger battery EV like the Kia EV6 (72kWh usable), and liked doing 500km round day trips on the weekends, then EV power consumption would be a bit chunk of the total house population.
Scott3:
Ultimatly I signed up to Octopus.
With an EV and electric hot water, I figured I could shift a decent chunk of my usage into the night. I like how they didn't have peak times in the weekend, and am often out from 9-11 weekdays anyway, so didn't care about that time being peak.
And across the board, rates were a bit cheaper than electric kiwi.
It'll be interesting to see what they do after the first 12 months, if they maintain those prices it would be tempting to switch next year.
The 17c buyback is pretty high for solar, but looking at the last few months it may well be slightly below the average mid-day spot price. I've been looking at their pricing and it might be slightly better than EK, but it'll be very close given we tend to get 10-15% of our power in the free hour.
The distribution of peak / off peak / night / free can make a big difference to which provider is best. Here's my EK usage distribution for the past week. It's been a cold week so the free percentage is lower than usual. In the free hour we do hot water, pre-heating the house with two heat pumps and two standard heaters, clothes drier sometimes, dishwasher, so we're pretty well set up for it. We also use heating whenever we like during the day regardless of the power rate, and we like it warm - 24 degrees is comfortable.
Octopus seems easier, and the no-peak weekends are good, but the longer peak time in the morning means a lot of our laundry would be done in peak time.
It's interesting that Octopus and EK seem to be offering time of use plans with times that don't align with the times set by lines companies for their tariffs.
For example, morning peak runs 7-11am 7 days a week in Kapiti, but EK ends peak rates at 9am, and Octopus offers offpeak rates all weekend. Wellington Electricity also runs peak to 11am, but EK still ends peak rates at 9am.
Looking at Wellington Electricity and Electra, there's a 3-5 cent differential in tariffs between peak and offpeak/shoulder, so EK is wearing that cost between 9-11am, and Octopus is wearing that cost in the weekend. When I used to track the wholesale market more closely (being on spot prices with Flick), the wholesale cost of electricity didn't vary that much during the day - sure there were occasional extreme peaks but on a normal day the pricing wouldn't vary much.
I'm sure they aren't stupid, just an interesting move, and I guess it helps to simplify their customer service and marketing of these ToU plans
nickb800:
It's interesting that Octopus and EK seem to be offering time of use plans with times that don't align with the times set by lines companies for their tariffs.
For example, morning peak runs 7-11am 7 days a week in Kapiti, but EK ends peak rates at 9am, and Octopus offers offpeak rates all weekend. Wellington Electricity also runs peak to 11am, but EK still ends peak rates at 9am.
Looking at Wellington Electricity and Electra, there's a 3-5 cent differential in tariffs between peak and offpeak/shoulder, so EK is wearing that cost between 9-11am, and Octopus is wearing that cost in the weekend. When I used to track the wholesale market more closely (being on spot prices with Flick), the wholesale cost of electricity didn't vary that much during the day - sure there were occasional extreme peaks but on a normal day the pricing wouldn't vary much.
I'm sure they aren't stupid, just an interesting move, and I guess it helps to simplify their customer service and marketing of these ToU plans
They usually subsidise the weekday by charging a peak/off-peak on the weekends - that's what's interesting about Octopus not doing similar timings all 7 days. I'd say generally that the pricing is geared towards most customers not shifting much load and they'll make plenty of money to cover the customers who do. Outside of EKMM, EK's free hour plan is actually relatively quite expensive unless you truly smash the free hour.
Octopus' model is quite different in the sense that they here to try and sell their smarts to other retailers, so perhaps making good margin on the electricity isn't totally their game.
RE Octopus
Somebody elsewhere has noted that the 17c solar buyback is a credit, not cash. Quite important if any boy is a next earner from exports.
eonsim:
It'll be interesting to see what they do after the first 12 months, if they maintain those prices it would be tempting to switch next year.
The 17c buyback is pretty high for solar, but looking at the last few months it may well be slightly below the average mid-day spot price. I've been looking at their pricing and it might be slightly better than EK, but it'll be very close given we tend to get 10-15% of our power in the free hour.
Frankly the rates don't seem sustainable.
$0 low user plan's are going to be increasingly expensive for them to offer as line's companies adjust their pricing in reflection of the low user rates phase out.
Will be very attractive for extreme low use customers that will likely loose Octopus money.
i.e.
- Solar + battery houses that are close to self sufficient, and only stay on grid to cover occasional use cases (guests, Week long rain etc.)
- Extreme low users, i.e. People with gas or solid fuel heating and water heating, and are super fugal with power.
- People who are going to spend half the year overseas (but want to keep the power connected to avoid re-connection hassle, and perhaps to run an alarm system.
- Batches that are miss-declared as primary homes.
Above will be quite a dead weight on the finances of Octopus energy NZ, as they need to pay the daily lines fees, but get next to nothing in kWh rates to cover that cost.
17c solar buyback (not sure how GST works with this, don't have any solar), when I am going to be paying only 14.29c incl GST for power in solar peak generating hours.
Possibly a bet that very few people with solar are on standard user plans.
But for those who both have solar and are standard uses, it is a massive approach changer. No longer are you best off to self consume your own power, by moving loads to the middle of the day. You are now better off to just sell the power in the middle of the day, and move your loads into the night. Battery users will be best to set their batteries up to be fully charged at the start of weekday morning & evening peaks, and at the end of "night" rate on the weekends, rather than attempting to self consume solar. Thereby avoiding peak fees.
Actually the above is what is best for the power network as a whole, (peak shaving, rather than optimizing for max self consumption).
I don't see any need to wait a year. Priced are fixed for a year, so if you like them, jump on it, and review the new prices in a year's time.
The days of being rewarded for being a long term customer are long gone. Companies attracting people with low rates, then slowly cranking them up to take advantage of customer base stickiness seems to be the norm. Only way the consumer can beat this is by jumping companies every few year's.
The above is quite a chore of course. Wish we just had the NZ electricity department as the sole provider of low cost electricity, and none of my time being spent on power shopping, and none of my power fees being spent on prime time TV adds, but this is not the world we live in.
nickb800:
It's interesting that Octopus and EK seem to be offering time of use plans with times that don't align with the times set by lines companies for their tariffs.
For example, morning peak runs 7-11am 7 days a week in Kapiti, but EK ends peak rates at 9am, and Octopus offers offpeak rates all weekend. Wellington Electricity also runs peak to 11am, but EK still ends peak rates at 9am.
Looking at Wellington Electricity and Electra, there's a 3-5 cent differential in tariffs between peak and offpeak/shoulder, so EK is wearing that cost between 9-11am, and Octopus is wearing that cost in the weekend. When I used to track the wholesale market more closely (being on spot prices with Flick), the wholesale cost of electricity didn't vary that much during the day - sure there were occasional extreme peaks but on a normal day the pricing wouldn't vary much.
I'm sure they aren't stupid, just an interesting move, and I guess it helps to simplify their customer service and marketing of these ToU plans
I think Octopus Energy might be trying to keep nationally consistent peak and off - peak rates, which would require some deviation from the varied lines company peak & off peak rates.
Also lines company rates are not the only factor.
I don't know what kind of wholesale deals they have cut with generation asset owners, but there is a fair bet that they will quite exposed to wholesale prices, so will have needed to consider that.
And the 17c solar buyback is going to encourage a lot of solar users, giving them a decent chink of power they must purchase in the middle of the day.
Further I think their price structure is optimized for marketing (as you say), rather than vs any real costs. As an example the slogan "Off-peak power every day, half price nights and no break fees." What are the odds that the cost's of night power is exactly half that of peak power?
Here's a graph for wholesale prices for the last couple of days for lower north island. Anyone can play with the filters to see other regions or ranges on this website.
It looks to me like wholesale prices are about 15c/kwh on average overnight, and 20 - 23c / kwh daytime, with peaks and troughs all over the place. There must be contracts in place to reduce this cost because otherwise most power providers would be losing money on most customers.
|
![]() ![]() ![]() |