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Topic # 157404 30-Nov-2014 16:09
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We're replacing the 20 old F&P freestanding stove with coil style elements that came with the house, it's starting to fail, but will be ok for a couple of months. It's slow to heat up, has no fan inside, just a hot box and four coil elements. It's pretty basic. We need another freestanding stove. 

We're considering both ceramic and induction cooktops. We know the theoretical advantages and disadvantages: efficiency (induction best), easy of cleaning (things stick to ceramic as the surface is hot), need proper cookware for induction (all our pots and pans are induction compatible), speed of response (don't care I cook everything very hot), safety, etc, but I'd like practical experiences. Induction costs around $1500 more, which we'd rather not pay if we don't have to, but stoves last a very long time so we'll pay it if there's a really good reason. My wife's used ceramic in the past and says she finds them fine, and my father in law who owned and ran a kitchen business for 20 years has one in his own kitchen.

Edit - I have ONE main question. Given we're happy enough with the current elements, will ceramic likely be ok for us, for fast hot cooking? We don't care about heating speed, we don't really care about how long it takes to change temperature, we don't care that it might stay hot for a while, we just want to get a pan very hot twice a day and cook food in it. We know induction hobs are great, but we're trying to work out if ceramic is good enough, so no need to share that information.

If anyone knows a good freestanding stove with an induction cooktop that's reasonably priced please let me know. We don't much care about the oven, we rarely use it, we use the elements ten times more.

We're strongly considering Beko stoves, specifically this one with a ceramic cooktop. Most Beko stoves review at 8/10 or better. We've seen it, looks like decent quality, the stainless steel matches the Bosch dishwasher close enough, and I like dial controls better than touch controls. It's around $1400 including installation. The induction version is $2500 to $3000, so significantly more expensive, and I don't like touch controls - my wife has trouble controlling them. Alternate ideas welcome :)

Also - interested in splashbacks as the Beko's don't have much of one, especially solid colors.

NB : gas is not an option for several reasons, including installation cost, daily charge and cleaning. Bottles aren't a great option where we are either. Please don't tell us gas is great.




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  Reply # 1185841 30-Nov-2014 17:51
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We've had a Beko oven for about a year. It is very good and was excellent value. I would buy another one.

I know you have a philosophical dislike for gas but having gone from an electric hob to gas I will never go back to an electric based cook top. There is a reason that chefs all use gas, and you can't beat instant response and lots of BTUs which gas provides. If you are concerned about introducing moisture use a high capacity range hood with a ceiling mounted fan to minimise noise.

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  Reply # 1185854 30-Nov-2014 18:14
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Did a lot of research on cook tops couple of months ago and Inductions wins followed by Gas then Ceramic. Buy Induction. It's safer, easier to clean, more energy efficient and heats up quicker. If you only want 1 appliance then could buy it from below website. Lots of people in Australia have purchased appliances from them without any issues. Prices shown includes NZ GST and shipping (change the country and currency to NZD on top right of page). German made appliances have low failure rate as well from the likes of Bosch, AEG and Siemens.

www.euappliances.com

Building a house next year and will be importing (Sea freight) all my whiteware and kitchen appliances including tapware, toilets, sinks for kitchen and bathrooms etc from UK after getting inspired and reading through this threadPage 17 has every little detail on how to go about doing it.

Bosch NZ does covers 12 months warranty on their kitchenware and white ware products purchased from overseas if you can produce the invoice. I rang them and confirmed this.

Same model AEG induction cook top is $1514 incl GST and FedEx courier to door and $2500 at Harvey Norman. $1000 savings.

http://euappliances.com/webshop/product/aeg_hk654200xb/45

http://www.harveynorman.co.nz/whiteware/cooking/cooktops/aeg-60cm-induction-cooktop.html




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  Reply # 1185868 30-Nov-2014 18:21
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Ceramic top is great for baking, nice surface for rolling out dough.  Especially with our 90cm stove.  Easy clean, just spray and wipe.

Smeg (again) is rubbish, as all the lettering is coming off and the clock failed after 2 years.  Replacement clock was quoted over $600 plus labour plus > a month delivery, so I got a mechanically identical one off eBay in less than a week for about $60.

Love the principal of induction, but never used it.  Think the price is too high though.

Don't suppose you you have space for a 90cm oven, but if you did then you'll discover how nice it is to fit 2 baking trays at the same time.  Or lots of pizza.

BTW, I don't think stoves (and other appliances) last as long as they used to.  Companies discovered they need to make money.  But a good brand will take you far.




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  Reply # 1185876 30-Nov-2014 18:38
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Gas isn't an option - daily charge, price to get it installed, etc. I'd appreciate if it wasn't raised. I know it works great but not an option. Don't need 90cm wide either, we don't bake much, but thanks for that idea.

Importing - couldn't find free standing oven/stoves on the website. Cooktop and built in stove isn't practical.

My question is really around value - is it worth $1600 to go from ceramic to induction? Right now we're saying no, given we're used to something 20 years old with old ring style elements. Would induction be better? Most likely. Will ceramic be a big improvement? Probably.

I'd still appreciate any information people can give :)




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  Reply # 1185882 30-Nov-2014 18:59
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timmmay: Gas isn't an option - daily charge, price to get it installed, etc. I'd appreciate if it wasn't raised. I know it works great but not an option. Don't need 90cm wide either, we don't bake much, but thanks for that idea.

Importing - couldn't find free standing oven/stoves on the website. Cooktop and built in stove isn't practical.

My question is really around value - is it worth $1600 to go from ceramic to induction? Right now we're saying no, given we're used to something 20 years old with old ring style elements. Would induction be better? Most likely. Will ceramic be a big improvement? Probably.

I'd still appreciate any information people can give :)


I'm going to ignore you because I'm like that sometimes. The two objections you have raised are a bit irrelevant. You can use a 9kg LPG bottle domestically and most gas hobs support LPG. They are cheap to run and one 9kg bottle will last about 3-6 months. A very good quality 4 burner LPG/natural gas hob is under $1000.

Anyway that's it for me, just saying...

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  Reply # 1185890 30-Nov-2014 19:28
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timmmay:

My question is really around value - is it worth $1600 to go from ceramic to induction? Right now we're saying no, given we're used to something 20 years old with old ring style elements. Would induction be better? Most likely. Will ceramic be a big improvement? Probably.

I'd still appreciate any information people can give :)


The move to ceramic is a massive improvement. We did it a couple of years ago. The level surface alone is a major benefit as it is much easier to clean, easier to move items around on, and safer too because there's nothing to catch them on or cause them to balance unstably.

We will still be moving to induction next to get instant heating.

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  Reply # 1185893 30-Nov-2014 19:33
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Google 'Beko kills people'...

Anyway.
I've cooked on ceramic and induction.
Induction is really quick, nice and safe... and considering how many ovens you'll buy in a lifetime (2-3 max), it's worth the money in my opinion.
Buying a nice freestanding 60cm from the likes of Bosch etc is worth the money in my view, it's not like a tablet that will be out of date / behind the game in 6 months time...



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  Reply # 1185897 30-Nov-2014 19:45
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Hammerer: The move to ceramic is a massive improvement. We did it a couple of years ago. The level surface alone is a major benefit as it is much easier to clean, easier to move items around on, and safer too because there's nothing to catch them on or cause them to balance unstably.

We will still be moving to induction next to get instant heating.


Perfect, exactly what I wanted to know, thanks. Curious though, if you just went to ceramic why are you going to induction so soon? Moving house or are you replacing an almost new stove?

Dunnersfella: Google 'Beko kills people'...

Anyway.
I've cooked on ceramic and induction.
Induction is really quick, nice and safe... and considering how many ovens you'll buy in a lifetime (2-3 max), it's worth the money in my opinion.
Buying a nice freestanding 60cm from the likes of Bosch etc is worth the money in my view, it's not like a tablet that will be out of date / behind the game in 6 months time...


That was gas, but interesting to know.

So it's worth going from $1400 to $3000 in your opinion to get induction? I have to guess it's the final 20% improvement being an extra 80% more money. We also need to get the oven plug moved and a splashback done, so it's another $500 I guess for that. I earn a good income, salary now rather than contract rates, so being more careful.

Can you compare cooking on ceramic and induction, keeping in mind where we're coming from, old style rings?




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  Reply # 1185902 30-Nov-2014 19:54
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We went from a ceramic topped range to a induction hob when we renovated or kitchen this year.
The ease of cleaning is identical between the two with the exception of cleaning up boil over. Because the induction hob's glass is only heated by conduction from the pot it doesn't get as hot as the ceramic for the same cooking temperature. There is also much less lag in initial heat up and in changes in temperature with the induction.
The induction hob we got was a modest Samsung unit. It has power boost options to provide more inductive current to individual elements by robbing power from the neighbouring element. It also has 'boil dry' and 'no pot' sensing. In both cases it will turn the element off. So I consider it to be safer than ceramic for the absent minded cook.
I would be interested to see what the range you are looking at requires for a power supply, because our hob alone required a 30 amp supply. Then the oven a 15 amp one on top of that.
I can't really comment on brands because we haven't got a free standing range but I can recommend induction over ceramic if you can afford it. While you are at it, check out ovens with a pyrolitic cleaning function. As the one who generally cleans the oven in our house, I can definitely recommend it.




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  Reply # 1185903 30-Nov-2014 19:58
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Induction. More control. Ceramic takes an age to heat and once you turn it off it burns Your Pan for another half an hour. Hopeless.

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  Reply # 1185913 30-Nov-2014 20:17
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coming from cooking with gas to now staying with my parents who have a ceramic cooktop . . .  it's rubbish, it's rubbish, it's rubbish.
From this experience I'd never buy a ceramic cooktop. I think I'd prefer the old electric coil rings.



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  Reply # 1185949 30-Nov-2014 21:03
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Seems like everyone has a different opinion, and no two people's opinion match up. People coming from gas aren't helpful as everyone knows gas is the most responsive - people who went to ceramic from very old style rings would be good to hear from.

joker97: Induction. More control. Ceramic takes an age to heat and once you turn it off it burns Your Pan for another half an hour. Hopeless.


Yes I know induction is better, but is it twice the price better when you're trying to save money? Originally I was going to get a $1000 stove. What you've described sounds much like my current stove, you get used to it.

Dingbatt: We went from a ceramic topped range to a induction hob when we renovated or kitchen this year.
The ease of cleaning is identical between the two with the exception of cleaning up boil over. Because the induction hob's glass is only heated by conduction from the pot it doesn't get as hot as the ceramic for the same cooking temperature. There is also much less lag in initial heat up and in changes in temperature with the induction.
The induction hob we got was a modest Samsung unit. It has power boost options to provide more inductive current to individual elements by robbing power from the neighbouring element. It also has 'boil dry' and 'no pot' sensing. In both cases it will turn the element off. So I consider it to be safer than ceramic for the absent minded cook.
I would be interested to see what the range you are looking at requires for a power supply, because our hob alone required a 30 amp supply. Then the oven a 15 amp one on top of that.
I can't really comment on brands because we haven't got a free standing range but I can recommend induction over ceramic if you can afford it. While you are at it, check out ovens with a pyrolitic cleaning function. As the one who generally cleans the oven in our house, I can definitely recommend it.


Really useful, thanks :) Power supply will be fine. Change in temperature is no problem, we're used to a 20 year old model and anything modern should be better.

The model we're looking at is self cleaning but not sure it's pyrolitic. That comes with the induction model in this brand. I'd like the Bosch induction with the pyro, but it's 2.5X more expensive than the Beko which looks fine.




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  Reply # 1185956 30-Nov-2014 21:16
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timmmay:
. . . people who went to ceramic from very old style rings would be good to hear from.


honestly, old style rings are better than ceramic. At least you have some level of control over temperatures in a timely manner.
If you are trying to cook anything that requires you to alter temperatures at different stages of cooking then ceramic is absolutely useless.

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  Reply # 1185957 30-Nov-2014 21:20
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Have a Fisher and Paykel induction cook top, it's okay, the capacitive buttons are a pain in the butt - I would far prefer physical knobs...and the cooking surface does still get plenty hot after you move the pot away.

Of course its safer in the way that it doesn't get hot when nothing is on it, and it does get hot FAST, but I like gas more I think (though gas cant really go as low on the temperature scale as induction can).

Another thing to think about is that you might need new pans if getting an induction cook top...



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  Reply # 1185960 30-Nov-2014 21:42
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Just remember that your stainless steel, aluminium and copper based pots wont work on an induction cook top. They all need to be steel.

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