Household Electrical Problems

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michaelmurfy

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#171533 21-Apr-2015 21:54

I thought I'd start up a new topic as a continuation to a sorta related problem (Touchpad Issues)

Basically myself and my partner bought a house with a issue with what seems to be with the power in some way or another - if you look at the laptop touchpad thread this is the problem we experience with all laptops but the problem has somewhat escalated to the point it is causing damage.

My Alienware will no-longer charge correctly regardless of where it is connected and I have gone through a few switch mode power supplies on other things in the household (router, speakers, soundbar). Anything without an earth pin on the power supply seems to "shock" you or generate a tiny spark when earthed.

So - thought I'd hire an electrician to check things out as it is becoming rather annoying not being able to use laptops on electricity and expect a functional touchpad from them - I personally use an iMac so have not noticed the problem to the same degree as others in the house.

Basically, the electrician said "There is no problems here - it is related to the power boards you're using" and then my partner pointed out that it doesn't matter what you're connected to in the house, the guy then continued to say that the house is earthed in the correct manner and that the live and neutral are working correctly "but I have fixed something which might make an improvement" - when my partner questioned to what this was he didn't give her any information but from what it seems he has simply turned off the power to the house and turned it back on again.

A little frustrating finding out the problem here - we've got what seemed to be a competent chap to look at it who seems to think it was fine. Are the problems that we're having a massive "lets troll Michael" or are the problems actually something else we're potentially not looking at? Talking to many many people it seems to be a grounding issue but with the ground pin correctly connected and big enough to handle the whole house this only leaves a wiring issue in the neutral and live phases or an actual problem on the street itself.

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#1288843 21-Apr-2015 22:36

If you really push your power company they can send out a tech to install a power quality meter that will give a decent report over a period of time.

I've heard of this from several sources including the company next to mine who had all sorts of things blow up for no good reason. The guy who came out from the power company was able to demonstrate in less than an hour that the power coming from the street was fine but by the time it got to the wall outlets something was seriously screwy. The issue was not resolved, just worked around with isolating transformers and UPS devices until they moved.

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#1288847 21-Apr-2015 22:54

Can you please give an example of an item that will produce a shock, and exactly how it happens. Also, can you feel it.

I actually wonder if Phase and Neutral have been transposed somewhere on your supply. It's not unheard of, and can be difficult to identify if you're not specifically looking for it.

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#1288870 21-Apr-2015 23:31

A) did the sparky test every socket?
B) Google "receptacle tester nz".
C) +1 to the power quality test from your provider suggested earlier

No particular order there.

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#1288877 22-Apr-2015 00:15

This is good value:

Point and leak test

michaelmurfy

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#1288928 22-Apr-2015 08:40

andrewNZ: Can you please give an example of an item that will produce a shock, and exactly how it happens. Also, can you feel it.

I actually wonder if Phase and Neutral have been transposed somewhere on your supply. It's not unheard of, and can be difficult to identify if you're not specifically looking for it.

MacBook Air seems to be the main culprit - also several USB chargers (good quality genuine branded ones)

gzt: A) did the sparky test every socket?
B) Google "receptacle tester nz".
C) +1 to the power quality test from your provider suggested earlier

No particular order there.

I believe the Spark tested "most" sockets - might have to also look into the power quality meter.

gzt: This is good value:

Point and leak test

Thanks for that - will pick one up today.

BeeJay

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#1288959 22-Apr-2015 09:45

Could be voltage drop. This can change depending on the time of day/night, so may not have been picked up at the time of day the sparky was there.
Easy to check with a voltmeter. I know some electronics are quite sensitive to voltage.

Jase2985

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#1289000 22-Apr-2015 10:10

BeeJay: Easy to check with a voltmeter. I know some electronics are quite sensitive to voltage.

have had this before, everything was working fine, turned on an oven element and a electric fry pan and wondered why it took ages to get to up to temp. the lights dimmed a little when the element turned on. measured the power points and they measured 215v, turned everything off and it measured 240v.

Turned out the where the overhead cable meets the house had corroded through and there was only one strand connected and thus limiting current into the house causing a huge voltage drop when lots of things were turned on. sparky friend reconnected it for us and haven't had an issue since.

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mclean

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#1289002 22-Apr-2015 10:12

The first thing to try would be to take the touchpad devices to another house and let someone else try them. That will tell you a lot.

michaelmurfy: Anything without an earth pin on the power supply seems to "shock" you or generate a tiny spark when earthed.

That's weird. These are presumably double-insulated devices. Exactly where are you touching them to get the "shock"? And how do are you "earthing" them to get a spark?

There may me more then one thing going on here.

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#1289010 22-Apr-2015 10:22

mclean: There may me more then one thing going on here.

Aredwood

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#1289138 22-Apr-2015 11:53

something will be causing lots of high frequency harmonics on your wiring. It could be in your own house or just as easily someone else on your street. Try unplugging or isolating every device in your house. Then trying the laptop again.

See if you can find someone who has an oscilloscope. Or even better a spectrum analyser. And ask them to have a look for high frequencys present in your power cables.

Also switch mode supplys normally have a small capacitor between the output and input sides for RF suppression. If harmonics are present they go through the capacitor and cause the shock you are getting.

If it is a neighbour who is causing the problem contact the lines company. As allowing harmonics to excape onto the network.Is almost certainly a breach of their connection terms.

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#1289144 22-Apr-2015 12:03

Aredwood: something will be causing lots of high frequency harmonics on your wiring. It could be in your own house or just as easily someone else on your street. Try unplugging or isolating every device in your house. Then trying the laptop again.

See if you can find someone who has an oscilloscope. Or even better a spectrum analyser. And ask them to have a look for high frequencys present in your power cables.

Also switch mode supplys normally have a small capacitor between the output and input sides for RF suppression. If harmonics are present they go through the capacitor and cause the shock you are getting.

If it is a neighbour who is causing the problem contact the lines company. As allowing harmonics to excape onto the network.Is almost certainly a breach of their connection terms.

^^ This, and ask your neighbours if they have any issues also.

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richms

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#1289148 22-Apr-2015 12:05

The only case I have seen first hand with harmonics being a problem was a friend who had a 3 phase lathe with a cheap VFD running it off single phase, Thing crapped out so much on the power that incandesnet lamps in the same house would start to play tunes as the VFD speed was changed. It blew up eventually and the VFD was replaced with a proper one and the singing lamps stopped happening.

Dont recall anything with other devices freaking out however. But it was a while ago and the guy lived in the whops and only had a handfull of things we would call technology because he tended to live a little bit alternative.

Richard rich.ms

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#1289377 22-Apr-2015 14:30

Providor power quality monitoring should pick up those issues.

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#1289380 22-Apr-2015 14:32

How much RF stuff do you have in that cabinet/closet

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#1290176 23-Apr-2015 14:06

My two cents:
- Have electrician tested inside distribution board where your earth is connected to neutral? Checked loose contacts, etc? If they only looked outside the house - earth may well be in good condition outside, but they also need to check inside (FYI - if you own the house - read electrical code of what you can do - many things are allowed to the house owner).
- Does your power bill look abnormally big? (>$120Ave) There were two reports from my friends who experienced above average power bill at their premises (e.g. up to $600/month) - service company followed by testing and revealed some [earthing] issues;

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