Socket load question

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Socket load question

bijgd

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#179443 8-Sep-2015 22:02

As in the image, I have a socket with two plugs, a 2400W kettle, if I plug the kettle to one of the two plugs, can I use the other plug as well? Will the socket be overloaded?

1 | 2

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1382092 8-Sep-2015 22:10

Yes, sockets are 10A each outlet, unlike multiboards that are 10A total because they are plugged in with a 10A plug.

bijgd

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1382093 8-Sep-2015 22:16

Is the 10A for the whole thing(two plugs) or each plug?

kiwigander

231 posts

Master Geek

#1382098 8-Sep-2015 22:23

I AM NOT AN ELECTRICIAN, but:

Assuming that powerpoint was professionally installed and your house wiring is reasonably modern, the powerpoint will be supplied by a circuit rated at 20 amperes. You can verify this by plugging a small lamp into one of the sockets, turning it on, then turning each circuit breaker on your main switchboard off (and back on again) in turn until you find which one controls that powerpoint. The rating will be printed on the circuit breaker. If it's not 20 amperes you've got a problem and should get a sparkie in to look at your wiring.

If you plug a kettle into one of the sockets, you're drawing 2400 W/230 V = 10.4 A, so you're OK to plug another appliance into the second socket as long as it draws less than 9.6 A. I suspect the 2400 W is a nominal rating based on a 240 V mains supply (as Australia used to have), so the heater offers a resistance of 24 ohms and on a 230 V supply will draw 9.6 A. Then you're OK even plugging a second heater into the second socket.

At this moment I'm sitting near a 2400 W rated heater on full and a dehumidifier, the two appliances plugged into the same double powerpoint and both running quite happily.

Are you by any chance from Canada or the USA?

k1w1k1d

1530 posts

Uber Geek

#1382115 8-Sep-2015 23:27

The total loading of the socket outlet fitting can NOT exceed 10 amps.
(Source AS/NZS 3112).

So that PDL 692 double socket can take; 1x10A or 2x5A or 1x6A + 1x4A etc.
It can't take 2x10A as that would give a total loading of 20A.

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1382155 9-Sep-2015 06:35

k1w1k1d:
I don't have that standard, so I cant read it to tell you where/why you are wrong. I suspect this is a case of not reading and/or understanding the document in full.

bijgd:
I am confident it is per socket. So in this case it is you can plug in 2 devices and use 10 amps on each.

Circuit protection also has very little to do with it.

The answer is yes, you can use both outlets however you like.
This thread will be up to three pages of speculation by this afternoon, ignore it.

I am an electrician.

frankv

5681 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1382161 9-Sep-2015 07:24

andrewNZ: Yes, sockets are 10A each outlet, unlike multiboards that are 10A total because they are plugged in with a 10A plug.

Not quite. Whilst the socket may be 10A per outlet, the wiring behind the socket is almost certainly only 10A. So, almost certainly, the total load on the socket is 10A.

In fact, several sockets will go back to a single fuse, which might be 10A or 15A. So the total load across several sockets will be 10-15A.

Do not be tempted to increase the fuse value... it is there to protect the wiring and prevent fire.

The exception to this is sockets on your stove, which connect back to th stove fuse which has a largwer value.

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1382162 9-Sep-2015 07:27

frankv:
andrewNZ: Yes, sockets are 10A each outlet, unlike multiboards that are 10A total because they are plugged in with a 10A plug.

Not quite. Whilst the socket may be 10A per outlet, the wiring behind the socket is almost certainly only 10A. So, almost certainly, the total load on the socket is 10A.

In fact, several sockets will go back to a single fuse, which might be 10A or 15A. So the total load across several sockets will be 10-15A.

Do not be tempted to increase the fuse value... it is there to protect the wiring and prevent fire.

The exception to this is sockets on your stove, which connect back to th stove fuse which has a largwer value.

no

This geekzone at its worst. Please don't make statements you are not qualified to make.

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

Bung

6505 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1382166 9-Sep-2015 07:40

andrewNZ: This thread will be up to three pages of speculation by this afternoon, ignore it.

I am an electrician.

Try this thread instead http://www.electricalforum.co.nz/index.php?action=more_details&id=1337798708

"There is a difference in the rating - as Pluto says - because each fitting can deliver 10 A total. Meaning a quad gives total 10 A, 2 x doubles = total 20 A, & 4 x singles = 40 A (always provided the cable can deliver that)." AlecK

Amongst the posters pluto (who used to do Telecom power system design) is on the AS/NZS 3000 Wiring Rules committee and AlecK, an inspector both confirm that the fitting is rated for 10A total.

If you want speculation try "Should 16A breakers be used on most 2.5mm circuits if insulation is allowed for?"

Reason for edit Should have used PC

frankv

5681 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1383338 9-Sep-2015 12:11

andrewNZ:
frankv:
andrewNZ: Yes, sockets are 10A each outlet, unlike multiboards that are 10A total because they are plugged in with a 10A plug.

Not quite. Whilst the socket may be 10A per outlet, the wiring behind the socket is almost certainly only 10A. So, almost certainly, the total load on the socket is 10A.

In fact, several sockets will go back to a single fuse, which might be 10A or 15A. So the total load across several sockets will be 10-15A.

Do not be tempted to increase the fuse value... it is there to protect the wiring and prevent fire.

The exception to this is sockets on your stove, which connect back to th stove fuse which has a largwer value.

no

This geekzone at its worst. Please don't make statements you are not qualified to make.

This is geekzone at its worst. Please don't make statements that you don't back up. Please do explain where I've gone wrong.

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1383560 9-Sep-2015 18:00

Alright then.
I'll be making some assumptions based on the photo. It it highly likely that this house is quite new based on the type and state of the wall, skirting, fittings and curtain.

frankv: Not quite. Whilst the socket may be 10A per outlet, the wiring behind the socket is almost certainly only 10A.

The wiring behind this socket outlet will be 2.5mm² (or perhaps bigger if it's a large house). Good for a lot more than 10 amps.

frankv: So, almost certainly, the total load on the socket is 10A.

In fact, several sockets will go back to a single fuse, which might be 10A or 15A. So the total load across several sockets will be 10-15A.

The circuit breaker will be 25A (it could be 20A but that's unlikely). There is zero chance it is 10A.

frankv: Do not be tempted to increase the fuse value... it is there to protect the wiring and prevent fire.

Congrats, you got one right... Except that it is almost certain that in this case circuit breakers are installed not fuses, therefore not replaceable.

frankv:

The exception to this is sockets on your stove, which connect back to th stove fuse which has a largwer value.

This is totally irrelevant.

gregmcc

2151 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1383562 9-Sep-2015 18:03

andrewNZ: k1w1k1d:
I don't have that standard, so I cant read it to tell you where/why you are wrong. I suspect this is a case of not reading and/or understanding the document in full.

bijgd:
I am confident it is per socket. So in this case it is you can plug in 2 devices and use 10 amps on each.

Circuit protection also has very little to do with it.

The answer is yes, you can use both outlets however you like.
This thread will be up to three pages of speculation by this afternoon, ignore it.

I am an electrician.

it doesn't matter if it's a single socket, double socket or quad socket, it's classed as 1 outlet for the purpose of the regs

I am an Electrician

gregmcc

2151 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1383566 9-Sep-2015 18:22

look at it like this, the circuit breaker is time/current based, if it's a 10a circuit breaker it won't trip instantly when the current rises slightly above 10a, running your kettle and another appliance for a few minutes together will not result in the breaker tripping, there are tables provided by circuit breaker manufactures that show loading vs. time characteristic of each size of their circuit breakers.

Off the top of my head (don't take this as a fact, but just from my memory), a 10A circuit breaker (with a standard C curve trip) will pass 15amps for 4 hours before tripping, the higher the current, the shorter the trip time, remember that there is also a cool down time once tripped, resetting right away will not result in another 4 hours of use as the bi-metal strip will have to cool down to ambient to get the 4 hours out of it again.

Remember the circuit breaker is sized to protect the cable, not the outlet or the appliance plugged in.

The standard power circuit should be a 20A circuit breaker, this will give you up to 17m of distance, a typical length for a power circuit in a house.

Yes, I am an Electrician

Jase2985

13466 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#1384580 9-Sep-2015 19:30

im pretty sure 2.5mm2 cable is rated for 16A when its surrounded by insulation. and that multiple sockets are generally connected to one circuit breaker/fuse.

the wall socket is generally the weakest link in the chain

gregmcc

2151 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1384596 9-Sep-2015 19:44

Jase2985: im pretty sure 2.5mm2 cable is rated for 16A when its surrounded by insulation. and that multiple sockets are generally connected to one circuit breaker/fuse.

the wall socket is generally the weakest link in the chain

Depends on the distance, 20A, up to 16 meters surrounded by thermal insulation

bijgd

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1384960 10-Sep-2015 13:11

If overloaded, will any of my appliances or sockets be burned or damaged?

1 | 2