Replacement windows - inserts - full replacement - Aluminium

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SATTV

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#181214 6-Oct-2015 20:17

Hi All,
We have a 50 year old house with wooden windows and several of them have rot.

I want to replace them with non wooden windows so I don't have to paint them ever again.

I have phoned I don't know how many joinery companies and most of them are not interested in doing a house lot of replacement windows, they only want new install or you get your builder to measure, quote and install. We don't have a builder that we know and trust.

The few that do come don't bother quoting.

I have two prices, one I believe is the if you are dumb enough to take it we will do it, the other is for PVC and is very reasonable, one guy flat out refused as we had pelmets and it is hard for them to get their tools up there and we believe that is why most are not bothering quoting.

There are pros and cons to every option. The inserts mean I wont have to change the blinds, but there is still exposed wood and will need painting.

The full replacements means the blinds will need changing, higher install cost as it has to be bought up to modern code and possibly re wallpaper inside.

As the PVC is so reasonable we are seriously considering it. Does anyone have any experience with PVC joinery in NZ, I know it is huge in the UK and Europe, I am worried about the strong sun and yellowing over time.
We had special PVC blinds made, the PVC supposedly came from Israel and they still yellowed.

Any thoughts, suggestions and advise gratefully accepted.

Regards
John

New Windsor
Auckland

I know enough to be dangerous

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#1401311 6-Oct-2015 20:28

I would love to know this as well, we are in a similar situation. It's been hard trying to get options to replace our old, rotten wooden window frames with newer, non-wooden ones.

timmmay

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#1401318 6-Oct-2015 20:37

ThermalFrame in Lower Hutt. You'll need your own builder though, since they're in a different city. Read their website, they claim some windows in a skifield that've been there for a long time with no yellowing. I have one of their windows, few years old, as good as new. I plan to replace another few this year.

Aluminium window companies have some of the worst service I've ever seen, as an industry.

ratsun81

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#1401654 7-Oct-2015 11:36

I've got PVC frames in my house.

Had them for around 3 years now and cant fault them. No sign of yellowing that i can see. Im also in Auckland.

We used Homerit, they did the quote, manufacture and install. Glass was supplied by Metroglass.

One thing that we found, even though there is no change in size we had a couple of cases where the attachment points for the blinds was a little bit tighter than with the old window frames.

MikeAqua

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#1401874 7-Oct-2015 16:40

If you get alloy inserts into wood, they typically rout a rebate into the window frame (back to clean wood) to take a pane of DG glass, and hold it in place with nailed on wooden beadings. It ends up looking quite good.

But ... it's possible to get condensation around the edges of the insert, which will rot the wood.

So .... when we did ours I got them done at the driest time of year and the guy agreed to rebate one day and install a couple of days later. In between I sealed-primed and painted (2 coats oil based enamel) the exposed timber on the rebate.

Mike

bfginger

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#1401958 7-Oct-2015 19:04

Is your PVC quote from Homerit? Make sure the quote includes multi-point locking as a window without it will be much less secure. They do two sets of profiles, one is Chinese and the other is a German design.

In Auckland there is WarmWindows as an alternative to Homerit. Ecowindows and Eurowindows are nearby alternative suppliers.

Awning windows are not popular in most countries so some PVC awning windows may not have very good features for things like safety and security stays judging by installation photos. Thermalframe's profiles appear to be from the UK where awning windows are more common so they may have better options.

Most aluminium windows companies are small franchise assemblers and may not want to tackle difficult jobs during a busy time. Don't install aluminium windows unless they are thermally broken. Try Nulook or Fairview/Elite for a quote as they do thermally broken windows with multipoint locking.
If installing aluminium sliders make sure they have actual seals not not an air gap.

The glass options are important too. Ask for argon between the glazing.

Wade

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#1402040 7-Oct-2015 21:53

My parents are in the process of swapping out all windows/doors in a 60~70's bungalow with double glazed/argon/low-E/tinted glass

They ended up going with Vantage windows and installed by Vision Windows based on personal recommendations, price and gut feel. They are very happy with result so far (3x ranchsliders done, windows measured and in manufacture), And for the feel good factor, all made from locally extruded aluminium and locally made glass. In fact they were invited to the factory in Hamilton to discuss their glass front door options and view examples of

Edit: I'd be weary of PVC as it hasn't been around long enough to prove its anti UV merits under our harsh sun, aluminium is a far safer bet imo

Dynamic

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#1402053 7-Oct-2015 22:29

I've had Rylock supply and fit some replacement windows in a block wall recently in Auckland. The whole experience was excellent. www.rylock.co.nz

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SATTV

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#1402065 7-Oct-2015 22:45

Thanks for the feedback everyone,

Our main contender is Homerit, we seem to be getting good feedback from everyone, their windows all come with three point multi point locking.
I have been to warmwindows a few year ago for another project and they were a lot more expensive, also triple glaze if I recall.
As for the other PVC companies they are not in Auckland so I am not sure that is a good idea.

As for Aluminum, without naming names I have called and emailed everyone that has been suggest but they either are not interested / don't get back to me.
I am grateful to the companies that say straight away that they don't replacement windows, but to string you along for weeks / months and not turn up is just frustrating.

John

I know enough to be dangerous

mattwnz

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#1402077 8-Oct-2015 01:04

Wade:
Edit: I'd be weary of PVC as it hasn't been around long enough to prove its anti UV merits under our harsh sun, aluminium is a far safer bet imo

I also think for resale, aluminum is a better bet. Also far more options of profiles. PVC are widely used in the UK, and you see some very bad implementation of them. They have in them in some historic buildings where they have swapped out the steel or timber ones, and they look terrible.
If I was going for aluminum, I would go for an anodized finsh, as powdercoating goes powdery and lightens up after a while. It is expensive to repaint aluminium windows if doing it properly.

timmmay

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#1402100 8-Oct-2015 07:12

Just a thought on multi-point locking - don't forget windows are made of glass, and even double glazed windows can be broken in about 10 seconds with a hammer. So it may stop opportunistic theft, but not anyone who really wants to get in. Heck a chainsaw and 30 seconds and you're through any wall.

zyo

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#1402104 8-Oct-2015 07:34

I am currently in the process of replacing all my old joinery with double glazed alu ones as well, it's a fairly big project and Rylock quoted 40k+ for the whole thing including installation.
Haven't heard about PVC windows in New Zealand (when I was in Shanghai it's quite popular) and wouldn't be so sure whether that's a good idea given the harsh condition of NZ (especially UV)

rphenix

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#1402107 8-Oct-2015 07:53

We went with homerit - who only quoted the german designed (VEKA) frames anyway and the european windows that also open inwardly for cleaning are pretty awesome. We went for low-e xcel argon filled dual glazing from metroglass, and as the upvc inserts are also thermally broken the window doesnt tend to have moisture fogging things up on the outside pane like other dual glazed units I've seen.

What surprised me the most with the upvc is how good it looks in an existing wooden window you don't really notice its been replaced where as an aluminum frame stands out like an eyesore on an older house. I would have to say replacing the windows has been the best thing we've ever done in our house and would recommend anyone look into that before they consider HRV systems etc.. which some of the pricing can go 1/2 towards replacing the windows in all your bedrooms.

rphenix

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#1402112 8-Oct-2015 07:59

zyo:
Haven't heard about PVC windows in New Zealand (when I was in Shanghai it's quite popular) and wouldn't be so sure whether that's a good idea given the harsh condition of NZ (especially UV)

Thats an old wives tale. Quality UPVC has a metal frame with upvc wrapped around it, they use all sorts of additives in the UPVC including a titanium alloy the frames will not crumble due to our sun conditions etc.. I think a lot of the problem was some people early on were bringing in cheap crappy PVC frames and getting what they paid for.

I would suggest at least visiting homerit, warmwindows and looking at the upvc hardware the first thing you will notice is how much better the locking hardware is everything is hidden inside the frame itself it feels a quality product and it actually makes you notice faults in many of the traditional aluminum window frames most people usually purchase.

jonathan18

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#1402113 8-Oct-2015 08:01

mattwnz: I also think for resale, aluminum is a better bet. Also far more options of profiles. PVC are widely used in the UK, and you see some very bad implementation of them. They have in them in some historic buildings where they have swapped out the steel or timber ones, and they look terrible...

Totally agree that the aesthetics should play a role in determining the window style and construction - personally, I'm totally affronted by the replacement of wooden windows with aluminium frames in older NZ homes. I guess from a distance PVC looks more 'wood-like', but can't say I'd ever contemplate anything but wooden in our 1920s house.

jmh

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#1402115 8-Oct-2015 08:07

rphenix:
zyo:
Haven't heard about PVC windows in New Zealand (when I was in Shanghai it's quite popular) and wouldn't be so sure whether that's a good idea given the harsh condition of NZ (especially UV)

Thats an old wives tale. Quality UPVC has a metal frame with upvc wrapped around it, they use all sorts of additives in the UPVC including a titanium alloy the frames will not crumble due to our sun conditions etc.. I think a lot of the problem was some people early on were bringing in cheap crappy PVC frames and getting what they paid for.

I would suggest at least visiting homerit, warmwindows and looking at the upvc hardware the first thing you will notice is how much better the locking hardware is everything is hidden inside the frame itself it feels a quality product and it actually makes you notice faults in many of the traditional aluminum window frames most people usually purchase.

Yeah I had UPVC fitted when I lived in the UK and I remember them saying it had a special feature that meant no sun yellowing. I think the newer, better quality UPVC windows have it. I'd reiterate what someone earlier said about making sure you have a thermal break with aluminium windows - my mum had new aluminium windows fitted by a builder who didn't bother and it gets condensation all around the metal part. There was mold on the curtains that matched the location of the aluminum.

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