Counterfeit building/construction material!

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Batman

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#195528 22-Apr-2016 22:46

I know Apple products are made in China, but these guys have managed to apparently sell counterfeit "German" concrete!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/79212068/special-investigation-importation-and-sale-of-chinese-building-products-under-scrutiny

Fred99

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#1538481 22-Apr-2016 23:38

The parent company - Xella - produces Hebel branded panel in China.

'nuff said probably.

eracode

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#1538513 23-Apr-2016 01:51

Not necessarily 'counterfeit' but I was amazed to see a standard-sized sheet of 10 mm 'Elephant' brand plasterboard/drywall in Bunnings recently - made in Thailand. From memory it was $11-odd a sheet compared to about $15 for NZ-made true Gib board. Not sure about these numbers but it was significantly cheaper.

Interesting that someone can produce that stuff and transport it a hell of a long way and sell it, presumably still at a profit, for less than a product made 30 km away.

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Batman

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#1538520 23-Apr-2016 06:25

Depending on material used, we could soon see a literal collapse of Auckland and Christchurch housing!

dazhann

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#1538548 23-Apr-2016 08:40

eracode:

Not necessarily 'counterfeit' but I was amazed to see a standard-sized sheet of 10 mm 'Elephant' brand plasterboard/drywall in Bunnings recently - made in Thailand. From memory it was $11-odd a sheet compared to about $15 for NZ-made true Gib board. Not sure about these numbers but it was significantly cheaper.

Interesting that someone can produce that stuff and transport it a hell of a long way and sell it, presumably still at a profit, for less than a product made 30 km away.

I work in the construction industry and I don't know any tradie that would use elephant board. Bunnings and Mega make a lot of money sell cheap imported products. They advertise them like crazy so they become a "known" brand when in fact they are just cheap knock offs which will only last out the warranty.

eracode

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#1540569 23-Apr-2016 11:38

dazhann:

eracode:

Not necessarily 'counterfeit' but I was amazed to see a standard-sized sheet of 10 mm 'Elephant' brand plasterboard/drywall in Bunnings recently - made in Thailand. From memory it was $11-odd a sheet compared to about $15 for NZ-made true Gib board. Not sure about these numbers but it was significantly cheaper.

Interesting that someone can produce that stuff and transport it a hell of a long way and sell it, presumably still at a profit, for less than a product made 30 km away.

I work in the construction industry and I don't know any tradie that would use elephant board. Bunnings and Mega make a lot of money sell cheap imported products. They advertise them like crazy so they become a "known" brand when in fact they are just cheap knock offs which will only last out the warranty.

Yep - I was doing a small handyman 'gibbing' job for some friends - just a couple of sheets - and they wanted me to use Elephant. I didn't like it - the feel of it or something and the way it cuts. Just an amateur but I've used Gib a bit over the years and Elephant didn't seem right and I wouldn't use it again.

However I also feel the real Gib board is maybe over-priced due to the fact that it is probably specified in a high proportion of jobs and has a near-monopoly position in NZ?

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robcreid

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#1540577 23-Apr-2016 11:45

dazhann:I work in the construction industry and I don't know any tradie that would use elephant board.

And how may of those tradies receive additional rebates or overseas trips or invites to sports events because they only offer GIB to their customers?

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dazhann

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#1540622 23-Apr-2016 12:45

robcreid:

dazhann:I work in the construction industry and I don't know any tradie that would use elephant board.

And how may of those tradies receive additional rebates or overseas trips or invites to sports events because they only offer GIB to their customers?

Rebates are generally received by retailers buying in bulk you would have to be very large customer doing large jobs to get rebates on top of sharp prices. The tradies in question work for these companies so are on wages so no kick backs.The comment is based on their use of both products.

All companies give out discounted trips and sport events, we as a trade supplier do it all the time, we're in a very competitive market. I do agree though that Winstone have a virtual monopoly on the market but their product is superior but yes dearer

mattwnz

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#1540637 23-Apr-2016 13:12

The lack of competition in the materials market in nz is one of the reasons we have a housing affordably crisis, due to a shortage of affordable new homes. Fixing that will have many knock on affects that will help with affordability,

robcreid

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#1540642 23-Apr-2016 13:18

Thanks for the response Dazhann, it's helpful to get the perspective of someone in the industry.

While we are on the subject, this morning I read the ComCom's report(pdf) into Winstone's were they found no wrong doing.

One point they raised was the following (section 31, page 8):-

Almost unique to New Zealand, plasterboard is commonly used as a structural building product in residential or other light timber-framed construction projects, providing part of the bracing equation for the building as a whole. In the rest of the world, plasterboard is used as a wall or ceiling lining product and must only support its own weight and that of any insulation or electrical products resting on it.

Any idea why this is? Is it just something that has developed over time in NZ or is there a specific reason for it?

It certainly explains why tradies would be more fussy about the product they use and why it is harder for the manufacturers/importers to get the required approvals.

dazhann

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#1540647 23-Apr-2016 13:31

mattwnz: The lack of competition in the materials market in nz is one of the reasons we have a housing affordably crisis, due to a shortage of affordable new homes. Fixing that will have many knock on affects that will help with affordability,

I can assure you its not the trade suppliers causing the affordability crisis, margins are waver thin as Carters Placemakers Itm Bunnings and Mega scrap it out over new house permits.Some products are sold at cost to try to ensure a successful tender for a new build.

Unfortunately the small scale of construction in NZ will always cause it to be more expensive here then overseas. It certainly not because tradies are over paid Im sure they get paid a lot more in Australia

dazhann

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#1540653 23-Apr-2016 13:48

robcreid:

Thanks for the response Dazhann, it's helpful to get the perspective of someone in the industry.

While we are on the subject, this morning I read the ComCom's report(pdf) into Winstone's were they found no wrong doing.

One point they raised was the following (section 31, page 8):-

Almost unique to New Zealand, plasterboard is commonly used as a structural building product in residential or other light timber-framed construction projects, providing part of the bracing equation for the building as a whole. In the rest of the world, plasterboard is used as a wall or ceiling lining product and must only support its own weight and that of any insulation or electrical products resting on it.

Any idea why this is? Is it just something that has developed over time in NZ or is there a specific reason for it?

It certainly explains why tradies would be more fussy about the product they use and why it is harder for the manufacturers/importers to get the required approvals.

I think Gib may have developed that here its called braceline it has a fine mesh in the center of the board. Theres another call toughline which has a thicker mesh which is use in schools hospital and commercial construction. Elephant board makes a competing product in the market.I think the fact that houses here are mainly timber may be a reason, Im not sure.

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MikeAqua

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#1541614 25-Apr-2016 12:22

Earthquakes, variable humidity, salt spray, plenty of rain and wind, timber frame houses ... there is no substitute for good materials.

Imported products may be built for less dynamic conditions.

Mike