Integrating a UPS into your home wiring?

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gpnz

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#196389 29-May-2016 16:47

Hi all,

The other day we had a power outage which took out our landline as it is delivered via our Chorus ONT. Of course the handy dandy cell phone was unaffected but I thought wouldn't it be great to have a little UPS to keep that thing running - easy enough, but then I thought, you know what, it would be good to keep the router going and maybe my media PC, and what would be really good would be the hall and kitchen lights to make it easy for me to find the torch... which is also on my cell phone... which is normally in the kitchen.

Anyway, it got me thinking.

- Is it legal to wire a UPS into your home mains wiring? If so, how would you go about it (I assume an Electrician, but for the purposes of Education, how would they go about it)
- Even if it is legal, is it a good idea?
- Would you need a special UPS, or just your average desktop type (Dynamix/APC etc), assuming it was sized correctly

Anyway, just wondering on a cold and wet Sunday afternoon.

Cheers,

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#1561803 29-May-2016 17:06

Hi There,

This isn't exactly what you've asked for, but is something to consider. I recently brought a backup battery for my ONT and Modem from a New Zealand Company "Constant Vigil". The guy even delivered it to my house in Christchurch. I've added some links with useful info.

Store Link
http://constantvigil.com/shop,shop,2,1,001.html

Geekzone Review
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=18451

sbiddle

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#1561810 29-May-2016 17:20

Yes it's possible, but I'd expect a fairly hefty bill for doing it. You'd need remove each light or appliance from the existing circuit and wire it back , something that may or may not be possible. Hooking lights and power plugs onto the same circuit is not recommended (I'm pretty sure it may actually be illegal now) so you'd also need a separate UPS for both.

Since you're making such significant changes you'd also likely need the installation of a RCD on your board if it's not already fitted.

timmmay

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#1561812 29-May-2016 17:25

That would be an incredibly expensive UPS with a massive bank of batteries. You'd probably need a generator, and a decent sized one, to run your whole house. $5? $10K? Not sure. Not the $500 ones from the hardware store.

Probably not practical for most people.

DarthKermit

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#1561817 29-May-2016 17:38

A place I worked at had a UPS system wired into some of their mains systems. They had dedicated 230 volt outlets with round earth pins to allow selected hardware to be kept going. The cost? Lots. They also had a backup generator hooked in there.

richms

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#1561823 29-May-2016 17:59

I just use a couple of UPS's where the switch /router s and have everything essential on them, WIFI AP's and cameras get power over ethernet so keep going, and as that cupboard has a trapdoor to the crawlspace I just have an extension cord thru the gap to the basement area where I can drag it out and into a portable generator if needed. Server PC has its own UPS with the USB cable so it will shut down. Same with the PC that stores all the media since mirror rebuilding is never a fun thing to have happen.

Richard rich.ms

SATTV

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#1561830 29-May-2016 18:19

You can have a UPS integrated into your power supply but it would need to be on dedicated circuits / breakers etc.

An electrician will need to do the wiring.

I belive a UPS with external batteries is called an APS.

These are used in appartment buildings for the garage doors in case there is a power cut.

It is a good idea to have different sockets for the UPS outlets, especially so "the accountant" can not plug the jug in to make a cup of tea.

One site I was on had three banks of outlets, mains only, mains + generator, mains + ups + generator.

You will need a good UPS with decent batteries.

John

I know enough to be dangerous

Rikkitic

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#1561872 29-May-2016 20:04

Cheap legal DIY alternative: Car battery hooked up to self-regulating trickle charger, some 12 volt leds for emergency lighting, 12 volt connectors from battery to electronics, which ideally are also all 12 volts, if absolutely necessary sine wave inverter for anything else

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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bigears

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#1561954 29-May-2016 23:29

I think its legally permissible, but it'd be costly to implement as you'd expect.

Utility infrastructure and commercial high value operations have it, e.g. hospital, water/sewerage, phone system and even the casino.

Don't see why a resident couldn't do likewise, albeit at similar costs and consenting process.

Batteries of whatever size are always destined to run flat at some point, so commercial installations supply the premises via something called a Transfer Switch. Google that, and you'll find how its typically done, and the options.

A battery UPS is provided for instantaneous continuity of supply between a power cut and the time it takes for a diesel generator to come on-line (many minutes depending on installation). Because the UPS must not be overloaded otherwise its inverter and/or batteries will fail for the entire system, UPS support is typically only wired into emergency lighting, evac and server rooms etc. The building still goes dark, but some emergency functions continue to work. Buildings that don't have a backup supply like this instead use those special purpose emergency lighting units that have a battery and stay charged from the mains, until that disappears and they turn on. You'll see them in restaurants often near the ceiling.

andrewNZ

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#1561969 30-May-2016 06:55

The cost would be prohibitive. Many thousands up front, and hundreds a year in maintenance.

try something like this instead for lights. 25 bucks.

richms

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#1562306 30-May-2016 12:43

andrewNZ: The cost would be prohibitive. Many thousands up front, and hundreds a year in maintenance.

try something like this instead for lights. 25 bucks.

If outages like last year become common then I dont think it is prohibitive, it would be money well spent.

My problem is my rattely cheap generator is to noisy to run at night, and that is when most outages seem to happen that go unfixed till the next day.

If I had more need to have constant power here I would get one of those propane powered standby generators, but its not quite third world bad on the old united networks network on the shore or west auckland, and vector are slowly going around draging it out of the 1970's so it should get better.

Richard rich.ms

DarthKermit

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#1562361 30-May-2016 14:25

You got overhead lines where you live?

richms

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#1562367 30-May-2016 14:48

Miles of them feeding from the substation. No underground feeders so any tree on wire action and it's out for ages. Apparently in the US they have self resetting breakers that try a few times to burn the tree off the lines etc. No luck here. Wait ages for them to inspect it before turning it back on.

Richard rich.ms

SepticSceptic

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#1562391 30-May-2016 15:24

richms: Miles of them feeding from the substation. No underground feeders so any tree on wire action and it's out for ages. Apparently in the US they have self resetting breakers that try a few times to burn the tree off the lines etc. No luck here. Wait ages for them to inspect it before turning it back on.

Vector have done some upgrades, I think the Waiwera sub has been upgraded. When power goes out ( as it frequently does in stormy weather), there are 2-3 surges as the breaker tries to burn off what ever dead tree, posssum or other luckless product of nature has fallen on the power lines. The poor fridge and freezer chokes and rattles away with these surges. Usually a 50% success rate.

Then 2 hours later, everything finally goes out. For hours.

Rikkitic

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#1562427 30-May-2016 16:23

We live near the end of a long country lane with wires on poles surrounded by overhanging trees. We almost never lose power, even during storms, and even then rarely for longer than an hour or two. I have always been impressed by just how reliable our supply is and am a little surprised that does not seem to be the case elsewhere.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

PolicyGuy

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#1562462 30-May-2016 16:37

SepticSceptic:

richms: Miles of them feeding from the substation. No underground feeders so any tree on wire action and it's out for ages. Apparently in the US they have self resetting breakers that try a few times to burn the tree off the lines etc. No luck here. Wait ages for them to inspect it before turning it back on.

Vector have done some upgrades, I think the Waiwera sub has been upgraded. When power goes out ( as it frequently does in stormy weather), there are 2-3 surges as the breaker tries to burn off what ever dead tree, posssum or other luckless product of nature has fallen on the power lines. The poor fridge and freezer chokes and rattles away with these surges. Usually a 50% success rate.

Then 2 hours later, everything finally goes out. For hours.

You are describing the action of a "re-closer". They've been around since at least the 1990s
The idea is that, if the short circuit is only temporary then it's worth trying to make the circuit again. As you say, there are usually three attempts to re-close, but if the breaker pops again all three times, then it's "goodnight nurse" and some lucky on-call line mechanic gets to drive out looking to the fault.

With NZ's geography, sometimes the lines are very long and thin with little or no cross-connection, so a simple break puts quite a few people off and can take a long time to fix, depending how far someone has to drive with their spotlight on the lines until they find the break.

I also suspect that the contractors doing the repair work are a little less gung-ho than 20 or 30 years ago, and more inclined to tell the at-risk lineys to stay home rather than go out in bad weather and potentially get in a sticky situation.
They're safer but your power stays off longer.

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