Pink Batts silencer vs normal wall insulation

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cldlr76

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Topic # 201655 28-Aug-2016 19:47

Hi,

We have a toilet at the end of a hall way that has a bedroom on either side of it. There is currently no insulation in the walls so obviously you can hear things you don't necessarily want to hear from bedrooms. We are renovating the toilet so will reline with 10mm aqualine on the toilet side of the wall and just standard 10mm gib on the bedroom sides and will insulate the walls. Just wondering if anyone has any experience with Silencer batts vs normal wall insulation, say R2.6 or R2.8. Do the silencer batts really make that much difference?

Thanks

tdgeek

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Reply # 1618853 28-Aug-2016 20:10

You could get fibre?

PhantomNVD

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Reply # 1618854 28-Aug-2016 20:11

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I did use silencer on my last Reno and found no significant difference between regular or silencer. I used the silencer between the main bedroom and the lounge, and regular between the babies bedroom and the lounge. No discernible difference at all in being able to hear the tv through the closed doors and internally lined walls.

Definitely worth insulating, not worth the 'noise' version premium IMHO.

RunningMan

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Reply # 1618862 28-Aug-2016 20:36

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Use noiseline/braceline instead of normal gib on the other side of the wall. The denser board reduces the sound transmission through the wall, and putting a reasonable density of batts in the cavity reduces the echo / boomines of the cavity.

You're not likely to to notices any difference between acoustic and normal R2.2 or similar batts, but in combination with dense wallboard they make a difference. Aqualine is fairly dense, so works well, as does noiseline/braceline. Going for 13mm instead of 10mm is even better, or if you really want to, a double thickness of noiseline.

EDIT: Remember any penetrations through the wallboard will transmit a lot of sound, so think about positions of light switches and other flush boxes.

Aredwood

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Reply # 1618865 28-Aug-2016 20:41

Double layer of 13mm gib to both sides. And see if you can still buy quietwave. Haven't used it myself but seems impressive according to the info about it.

Jase2985

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Reply # 1618867 28-Aug-2016 20:46

looking at earthwool the standard R2.7 and the acoustic R2.7 have the same product code so....

RunningMan

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Reply # 1618890 28-Aug-2016 21:22

Jase2985:

looking at earthwool the standard R2.7 and the acoustic R2.7 have the same product code so....

Exactly. As long as it is a reasonable density and fills the cavity, not worth paying extra for "acoustic" batts. Just remember they don't do much by themselves - it's the combo of denser wallboard and insulation that does it.

webwat

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Reply # 1619918 30-Aug-2016 21:07

Some insulation tradies today told me pink batts contains the "F" word: formaldehyde...

Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going ^_^

Turitel

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Reply # 1626328 9-Sep-2016 09:18

In order to reduce the passage of sound between areas, the barrier between them needs to have mass and absorbency. Batts, fibre, wool etc have neither. Mass on it's own is better, but still far from perfect - i.e. if you hold a drinking glass against a single-course brick wall, you can hear clearly the conversation in the next room, because although they have mass, the bricks have little absorbency. I have used rubber mats/sheet (6mm - 10mm) which works very well.

A doctor friend was setting up a new surgery. It was a 2 story building, with carpeted wooden floors and the consulting room above the waiting room. The waiting people could clearly hear everything said above them. I used 10mm rubber sheet on the wooden floor and it gave an excellent result. I could probably have used thinner rubber, but the doctor was taking no chances. The roll of rubber was amazingly heavy, but it worked a treat

Carpet with underlay attached is also very good, or just carpet on its own.

These are DIY/cheap solutions - or you can go pro, using professional products from companies such as this: http://www.isolgomma.com/eng/

nofam

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Reply # 1626450 9-Sep-2016 11:57

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To add my 2c worth (I'm about to commence a new build so have looked into this extensively), as others have said, sound transmits through solid substances with mass. I'd recommend regular wall batts (the maximum for your cavity - presumably it's 90mm framing?), and a double-layer of gib. Seal all joins of the first layer with an acoustic sealant and then affix the second layer so the joins are offset. Seal these joins, and stop as normal

To take this one step further, you can use Gib Rondo to batten the wall, as this gives you separation from the studs, where a lot of the noise actually moves from one room to the other. To take it even further, you could use some Green Glue between the sheets.

Really depends on how indepth a solution you want to get into, and bare in mind that your toilet is likely centred in the middle of the room, so adding mass to one wall could look odd.

Also, another factor that is often overlooked is the ceiling - a lot of noise travels up into the roof cavity and back down into other rooms.

Take a look at this vid from Mitre 10's youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bFXogDTwQA

Turitel

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Reply # 1626480 9-Sep-2016 12:20

The key point is the absorption. The Gib rail is helping to stop the direct transmission of sound vibration from the Gib to the joists and then through to the Gib on the other side. If there was something in the path to absorb the transmission, then that would significantly increase the acoustic isolation between the rooms.

The Batts will do next to nothing - the transmission is occurring through the Gib and joists - i.e. the solid parts which do not compress or absorb. It will help to keep the room warm though.

The Quietwave as mentioned by others http://tropex.co.nz/sites/default/files/product_pdfs/Allproof%20Quietwave.pdf is the absorber that makes the difference. This could of course be any other absorbent material - rubber sheet, underlay etc.

If the job is being done by contractors - use what you can afford. If you are doing it yourself, there are quite a few DIY approaches and material options which are a lot cheaper and very effective.

nofam

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Reply # 1626508 9-Sep-2016 12:41

Turitel:

The key point is the absorption. The Gib rail is helping to stop the direct transmission of sound vibration from the Gib to the joists and then through to the Gib on the other side. If there was something in the path to absorb the transmission, then that would significantly increase the acoustic isolation between the rooms.

The Batts will do next to nothing - the transmission is occurring through the Gib and joists - i.e. the solid parts which do not compress or absorb. It will help to keep the room warm though.

The Quietwave as mentioned by others http://tropex.co.nz/sites/default/files/product_pdfs/Allproof%20Quietwave.pdf is the absorber that makes the difference. This could of course be any other absorbent material - rubber sheet, underlay etc.

If the job is being done by contractors - use what you can afford. If you are doing it yourself, there are quite a few DIY approaches and material options which are a lot cheaper and very effective.

Well said. I hadn't sen the quietwave product before. My preference is for Green Glue, as it has some unique properties in that it stays very elastic, and converts sound waves into heat, effectively stopping their progress through the gib board.

BTR

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Reply # 1626530 9-Sep-2016 13:09

+1 on gib noiseline, installed this on the wall between the lounge and master bedroom and works well, I only installed a single layer with normal R2.6 batts and it made a huge difference.

Hammerer

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Reply # 1626537 9-Sep-2016 13:17

Soundwaves are dissipated/absorbed by travelling through dense material so in-wall batting, honeycomb cardboard, egg cartons, etc. are not the way to go as I have already found out. Those products are much better at preventing reflection of sound by absorbing soundwaves than they are at stopping tranmission.

Instead of batting you would be better off with something thicker and heavier like the rubber sheeting already mentioned or old carpet (better with underlay). Most of the best sound-deadening products install behind the wall board anyway so lay it over over the framing and then finish with wall board to reduce transmission through the frame.

elpenguino

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Reply # 1627192 10-Sep-2016 21:55

nofam:

To take this one step further, you can use Gib Rondo to batten the wall, as this gives you separation from the studs, where a lot of the noise actually moves from one room to the other. To take it even further, you could use some Green Glue between the sheets.

This is what takes the job to the next level. You need to decouple the wall surface from the structure.

A low cost alternative can be used for non load bearing walls. Remove all the dwangs. Insert extra stud between each pair of studs but make the new ones offset to the existing studs. Make them stick out into the toilet approx 20mm. then pack around the room perimeters (top plate, bottom etc) with thin strips of scrap 20mm material (MDF etc) to even out the surface.

Pack with batts and gib and seal as normal. If worried about the loss of dwans, use braceline or similar.

Hey presto, decoupled wall.