"Good neighbour" fence design query

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mdf

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Topic # 223736 15-Oct-2017 16:01

I'm quite keen on this style of "good neighbour" fence (rails and palings inside the posts):

However, all the pictures I've been able to find online just seem to have the rails skew nailed inside the posts. A couple I have found might use pocket hole screws. Neither of these seem particularly robust to me. I would usually either bolt or batten screw the rails on to the posts, which seems way more robust (I'm in coastal Wellington so the breeze can get up).

Is there something I'm missing here that makes this design more solid than it looks?

Edit: Dagnabit. Image is from Calgaryfence.ca but had to copy + upload to GZ due to https requirements. No copyright infringement intended.

ArcticSilver

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Reply # 1883827 15-Oct-2017 16:38

The cap on the top is also providing added bracing as it seems to finish in the middle of the post, I assume it is also nailed down there. Personally I agree with you though, I would use screws into the post.

Aredwood

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Reply # 1883842 15-Oct-2017 17:13

If you and the neighbour agree why can't you just build it the way you want? Or just go and build it if you are happy to pay the full cost.

SATTV

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Reply # 1883880 15-Oct-2017 18:20

I have the fence style above, I built it myself and I am not good at working with wood.

The rails are sqew nailed in and the pailings are a special pailing nail. I can climb up the rails with no issue what so ever.

I also live in a high wind zone.

My section in on a hill and I have the rail horizontal, one pain is I get the wheel of the lawnmower stuck so make sure the bottom of the rail is higher than the wheels of your mower.

On part of the fence we have pailings on both sides to make it look good.

John

I know enough to be dangerous

Lastman

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Reply # 1883915 15-Oct-2017 18:58

You might do a lap joint for the top rail and battern screw them. Lapping the bottom rails might weaken the posts. You have to be careful using screws on new timber as, when it drys and contracts, it can snap the screws. Nails have much better shear strength.

mdf

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Reply # 1883994 15-Oct-2017 20:39

Thanks all. @lastman I did wonder about doing a lap joint (or at least a notch) for the middle and bottom rail. As @ArcticSilver said, the top one is probably the easy one since the top rail/capping will add some strength too.

@Aredwood - No issues with the neighbours. Apparently the design of the fence is called a "good neighbour" fence - I guess because neither side has to put up with the rails. Seems to be a common design in north america, I'm just wondering how to reproduce it here.

kryptonjohn

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Reply # 1884052 15-Oct-2017 22:24

mdf:

I'm quite keen on this style of "good neighbour" fence (rails and palings inside the posts):

However, all the pictures I've been able to find online just seem to have the rails skew nailed inside the posts. A couple I have found might use pocket hole screws. Neither of these seem particularly robust to me. I would usually either bolt or batten screw the rails on to the posts, which seems way more robust (I'm in coastal Wellington so the breeze can get up).

Is there something I'm missing here that makes this design more solid than it looks?

Edit: Dagnabit. Image is from Calgaryfence.ca but had to copy + upload to GZ due to https requirements. No copyright infringement intended.

If the posts are adequate (spacing, dimension, depth of posthole and cement) then the rails are there to prevent sag rather than stiffen the fence.

Just don't space the posts too far apart.

mattwnz

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Reply # 1884060 15-Oct-2017 22:56

ArcticSilver:

The cap on the top is also providing added bracing as it seems to finish in the middle of the post, I assume it is also nailed down there. Personally I agree with you though, I would use screws into the post.

Can you actually get hot dipped galvanized screws that will be as durable as nails? I guess you could use S/S but that would be pricey and will still likely corrode, especially when in contact with treated timber.

mattwnz

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Reply # 1884062 15-Oct-2017 22:59

Could you use nail plates, or better still L brackets under the railings with coach bolts.

cadman

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Reply # 1884065 15-Oct-2017 23:27

mattwnz:

Can you actually get hot dipped galvanized screws that will be as durable as nails? I guess you could use S/S but that would be pricey and will still likely corrode, especially when in contact with treated timber.

304 or 316 grades (austenitic) of stainless steel aren't a problem with H3.2 (rails) or H4 (posts). They are in fact considerably more durable than galvanised equivalents.

mattwnz

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Reply # 1884068 15-Oct-2017 23:44

cadman:

mattwnz:

Can you actually get hot dipped galvanized screws that will be as durable as nails? I guess you could use S/S but that would be pricey and will still likely corrode, especially when in contact with treated timber.

304 or 316 grades (austenitic) of stainless steel aren't a problem with H3.2 (rails) or H4 (posts). They are in fact considerably more durable than galvanised equivalents.

Guessing a lot more pricey though, and maybe overkill for this type of job.

Bung

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Reply # 1884081 16-Oct-2017 06:46

mattwnz:
Guessing a lot more pricey though, and maybe overkill for this type of job.

Apparently timber treatments now are more corrosive to zinc than they used to be so a lot of structural fastening has to be at least 304 ss rather than galv. I removed some bolts from an old deck and they were almost rusted through where they went through the posts even though they looked ok. The price fluctuates wildly. My local ITM has 304 bolts cheaper than Bunnings hot dip galv. The Bunnings ss bolts were dear anyway they only stocked 316. The difference in performance is mainly cosmetic. The so called tea staining doesn't matter on bolt heads you can't see.

cadman

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Reply # 1884176 16-Oct-2017 10:45

mattwnz:

cadman:

mattwnz:

Can you actually get hot dipped galvanized screws that will be as durable as nails? I guess you could use S/S but that would be pricey and will still likely corrode, especially when in contact with treated timber.

304 or 316 grades (austenitic) of stainless steel aren't a problem with H3.2 (rails) or H4 (posts). They are in fact considerably more durable than galvanised equivalents.

Guessing a lot more pricey though, and maybe overkill for this type of job.

You bet. But as long as you stick with CCA treated, not CuAz or ACQ, galvanised fasteners are fine for durability. I can't remember the treatment numbers to refer to for the timber identification but you should be able to find them on the BRANZ website.