Preliminary legal advice on going to Environment Court to challenge Regional Council District Plan

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MrAmerica

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#239326 12-Jul-2018 11:09

I own a property that has had a recent district plan change that has resulted in a large chunk being designated as a flood zone.

As far as I can work out, the EC is designed to do just this type of thing and make a call on district plan changes but before I contact my lawyer I was hoping someone in here could give an opinion on whether its worth proceeding, and if anyone has done this type of thing before.

I have very good historical evidence showing the largest recorded flood in the area came no where near the land in question, including photos of the flood. I have discussed with the council and they admit its a bit of a guess, but are unwilling to review the evidence.

Cheers

nickb800

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#2054920 12-Jul-2018 11:54

What are you trying to achieve? Do you want to build on the part that is designated a flood zone, or are you looking to maintain resale value?

I'd expect that EC will be a very expensive approach.

I can understand why council would be unwilling to disregard detailed district wide flood modelling based on some photos, as to be frank, it would be a pain for them to process everyone bringing in their flood photos and weigh up the evidence, given that landowners have an incentive to understate their vulnerability (to prop up their land value). Perhaps you could talk to them to understand what sort of evidence they would consider, and then commission their flood modelers (typically engineering consultancies) to do a detailed model of your area to a standard that the council would consider? This might be cheaper/have a higher chance of success than lawyers

MrAmerica

128 posts

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#2054929 12-Jul-2018 12:06

nickb800:
What are you trying to achieve? Do you want to build on the part that is designated a flood zone, or are you looking to maintain resale value?

I'd expect that EC will be a very expensive approach.

I can understand why council would be unwilling to disregard detailed district wide flood modelling based on some photos, as to be frank, it would be a pain for them to process everyone bringing in their flood photos and weigh up the evidence, given that landowners have an incentive to understate their vulnerability (to prop up their land value). Perhaps you could talk to them to understand what sort of evidence they would consider, and then commission their flood modelers (typically engineering consultancies) to do a detailed model of your area to a standard that the council would consider? This might be cheaper/have a higher chance of success than lawyers

I am looking to build.

The photos are theirs, not mine. I have talked to them, referenced their photos to known, surveyed heights, but they are not interested. They don't have modelling for the area as yet. I have asked what data they used to get the zone but they haven't responded.

I tend to agree with you regarding the cost of lawyers, although the EC is one you can represent yourself, but I really dont know how I would go if the council lawyered up to argue against me.

Cheers

nickb800

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#2054945 12-Jul-2018 12:21

Perhaps an OIA for how they came up with the flood zone would be a good start if they aren't cooperating? It could be that they have an outdated or low resolution elevation model, which is inaccurate on your property. Or that they are modelling for a different scale of event to which you have experienced to date.

How does the rule as it stands affect your building? Does it ban building outright, or do you need to build up the floor level etc? It could be that (say) 1m of fill is cheaper than lawyers or engineers

mattwnz

20165 posts

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#2054992 12-Jul-2018 13:28

If there is a group, then spreading the costs is probably the only way to go as going to the EC is very costly. I think there needs to be a low or no cost way to challenge council decisions. People don't realize how much power councils have, until they face this sort of thing.

surfisup1000

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#2054996 12-Jul-2018 13:31

In my view you are looking at 100k minimum to fight this with a slim chance of winnning -- you will end up in the environment court. You'll be hiring experts , who will be fighting their experts.

We were quoted something like this to fight against views blocked by a leaky building modification because the council issued a non notified resource consent.

The councils are absolutely corrupt in the way they just go about issuing non notified consents knowing the cost of disputing them is too much for property owners.

I was keen to fight , but the other neighbours were not.

MrAmerica

128 posts

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#2055010 12-Jul-2018 13:45

surfisup1000:
In my view you are looking at 100k minimum to fight this with a slim chance of winnning -- you will end up in the environment court. You'll be hiring experts , who will be fighting their experts.

We were quoted something like this to fight against views blocked by a leaky building modification because the council issued a non notified resource consent.

The councils are absolutely corrupt in the way they just go about issuing non notified consents knowing the cost of disputing them is too much for property owners.

I was keen to fight , but the other neighbours were not.

Thanks, this is the type of anecdotal info I was after. On the positive side, the local council as opposed to the regional one seemed pretty positive about getting a resource consent based on the data I discussed with them, and their knowledge of the area. I can still build on the property, if I move about 200m from the best site its out of the flood zone, problem is its also a full 1 metre lower......

As Nick says, 1m of fill is a no doubt a cheaper option

mudguard

2120 posts

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#2055210 12-Jul-2018 16:57

How do they do their modelling, LIDAR data and ARCHGIS software or something? I've played around a little bit with it when I did some postgrad study. Thought it would be really interesting to apply the data to the golf course I play at while I could get the LIDAR data for free...

Instead I spent a year counting rocks.

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MrAmerica

128 posts

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#2055477 13-Jul-2018 06:56

mudguard:
How do they do their modelling, LIDAR data and ARCHGIS software or something? I've played around a little bit with it when I did some postgrad study. Thought it would be really interesting to apply the data to the golf course I play at while I could get the LIDAR data for free...

Instead I spent a year counting rocks.

They have LIDAR data for the area, but no flood data modelling.

raytaylor

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#2055967 13-Jul-2018 20:23

mudguard:

How do they do their modelling, LIDAR data and ARCHGIS software or something?

Its probably google earth, a large polygon set to absolute altitude and watching what happens when they adjust the height slider.

I would have thought that district plan changes require a notice period and public consultation?

Ray Taylor

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mattwnz

20165 posts

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#2055974 13-Jul-2018 20:34

surfisup1000:

issuing non notified consents

I saw some stats that showed the councils very rarely notify consents. Basically it all comes down to council discretion as to whether they consider something 'less than minor'. But I would have thought the whole point of having it notified was to actually work out who was affected by it, rather than just assuming people aren't going to be affected.

MrAmerica

128 posts

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#2056759 16-Jul-2018 05:53

raytaylor:
mudguard:

How do they do their modelling, LIDAR data and ARCHGIS software or something?

I would have thought that district plan changes require a notice period and public consultation?

Apparently not.