Ducted heatpump options with integration into Home Automation

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billgates

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#245025 14-Jan-2019 20:21

Hello folks,

We are wanting to put in a ducted HVAC solution that can do zone control and fresh air ventilation integrated into the same system with a summer bypass, I have searched but cannot seem to find anything good out there that can also integrate into an home automation system with full control of zones as well where the zone can slow down or increase air flow automatically once the said room temperature has reached.

I have recieved 2 quotes for below systems. Fujitsu can have IR mounted on the wall controller and then maybe use something like Broadlink RM Pro but no zone control. The Mitsubishi will have a WiFi card in the ducted unit and can be controlled by voice by Alexa but looks like the integration is talking to both Mitsubishi and Amazon cloud and no open API.

Option 1 - Fujitsu ARTG54LHTC 14.0kw ducted system with option for introduced fresh air and zone control.

Fujitsu ARTG54LHTC $10,486+ GST
Introduced fresh air $1040+ GST
Zone control $1950+ GST

Option 2 - Mitsubishi Electric140 with option for lossnay system

Mitsubishi PEAD-RP140JAA $12,187+ GST
Lossnay fresh air $2745+ GST

Any opinions or recommendations?

Do whatever you want to do man.

timmmay

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#2161172 14-Jan-2019 20:26

Lossnay is a proper heat recovery ventilation system, which would be a plus - more efficient in winter. Not sure if the Fujitsu is or not. I have a vague memory from looking at it years ago about a query about the materials the Lossnay was made from, something about durability, but I forget the details.

snnet

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#2161173 14-Jan-2019 20:27

Depends on how much you want to spend on the automation side.

I've done plenty of automation involving HVAC. The most common thing I do is the IR solution as the APIs are still a wee bit closed. I usually accomplish this using Fibaro (z-wave) for the control and general programming, and global cache IP to IR systems and place an IR transmitter at the heat pump, code the signals in LUA with Fibaro for the interface.

Obviously there's a bit of work involved and/or expense -- more so if you aren't doing it yourself.

davidcole

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#2161211 14-Jan-2019 22:09

Blog here from a Wellington guy that put in ducted heat pumps and has connected them to home assistant.

https://www.jethrocarr.com/2018/07/07/the-heating-project/

You can do it without their WiFi module if you want to build a module for it

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dasimpsonsrule

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#2161215 14-Jan-2019 22:14

If you want to go for a DIY solution to your automation, the Mitsi Elec units have a serial port on board (I believe all the modern ones have this port), that some people have decoded the protocol so you can build your own controllers etc.

Talkiet

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#2161221 14-Jan-2019 22:24

I have a Daikin ducted system talking with Homeassistant directly (not through a cloud) but honestly I wouldn't recommend it. It does mostly work, but the actual comms are unreliable - commands often don't execute and the plugin for Homeassistant is decent but would need to be a lot cleverer to rely on. (As in it would need to maintain an internal state and compare that to the status of the heat pump every 30 seconds and resend the commands until the are accepted)

Zones are also generally a con job.

Ask your suppliers where the temperature readings are taken and whether there's any control or reading of the temperature in the other 'zones'. Most residential systems onlyhave temperate smarts in the main zone and simply have on/off for other rooms... In many cases a remote zone that gets more or less sun than the main zone will not have the expected temperature.

I ended up just getting wall switches installed to control the zone flaps...

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

snnet

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#2161224 14-Jan-2019 22:32

Talkiet:

I have a Daikin ducted system talking with Homeassistant directly (not through a cloud) but honestly I wouldn't recommend it. It does mostly work, but the actual comms are unreliable - commands often don't execute and the plugin for Homeassistant is decent but would need to be a lot cleverer to rely on. (As in it would need to maintain an internal state and compare that to the status of the heat pump every 30 seconds and resend the commands until the are accepted)

Zones are also generally a con job.

Ask your suppliers where the temperature readings are taken and whether there's any control or reading of the temperature in the other 'zones'. Most residential systems onlyhave temperate smarts in the main zone and simply have on/off for other rooms... In many cases a remote zone that gets more or less sun than the main zone will not have the expected temperature.

I ended up just getting wall switches installed to control the zone flaps...

Cheers - N

Often the case with residential systems as you say

Override switch is a good simple fix -- again in regards to my previous post re. automation with Fibaro I've incorporated temperature sensors to talk to a Fibaro HomeCenter and had it switch zones on/off accordingly. Just a small addition to a system when you already have it for other things

billgates

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#2161225 14-Jan-2019 22:39

davidcole: Blog here from a Wellington guy that put in ducted heat pumps and has connected them to home assistant.

https://www.jethrocarr.com/2018/07/07/the-heating-project/

You can do it without their WiFi module if you want to build a module for it

Thank you. This is perfect and what I needed.

This looks great and it’s the same solution that we have been quoted for except I do not use Home Assistant and use Hubitat instead but that should not be a big issue because this good guy Jethro has also linked to his source code on Git Hub so I will try and make it work. Awesome!

Reading through Jethros blog our quote has come out considerably cheaper compared to what they were charged. The Wifi module will be another $250.

Do whatever you want to do man.

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Talkiet

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#2161227 14-Jan-2019 22:45

snnet:

Talkiet:

I have a Daikin ducted system talking with Homeassistant directly (not through a cloud) but honestly I wouldn't recommend it. It does mostly work, but the actual comms are unreliable - commands often don't execute and the plugin for Homeassistant is decent but would need to be a lot cleverer to rely on. (As in it would need to maintain an internal state and compare that to the status of the heat pump every 30 seconds and resend the commands until the are accepted)

Zones are also generally a con job.

Ask your suppliers where the temperature readings are taken and whether there's any control or reading of the temperature in the other 'zones'. Most residential systems onlyhave temperate smarts in the main zone and simply have on/off for other rooms... In many cases a remote zone that gets more or less sun than the main zone will not have the expected temperature.

I ended up just getting wall switches installed to control the zone flaps...

Cheers - N

Often the case with residential systems as you say

Override switch is a good simple fix -- again in regards to my previous post re. automation with Fibaro I've incorporated temperature sensors to talk to a Fibaro HomeCenter and had it switch zones on/off accordingly. Just a small addition to a system when you already have it for other things

Yep, I have temp/humidity/light/motion sensors in most rooms as well, so if I really wanted to I could write the logic into HA... Would be easy enough to connect the flaps to a Zwave or sonoff type switch... Btu so far the system is fine with the manual zone control...

Cheer s- N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Geektastic

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#2161247 15-Jan-2019 00:04

I can say that I got a quote to install the wifi module into our Fujitsu (well, one of them - the other one wasn't possible) and the heat pump company said it would be about $700 from memory just to do that. Needless to say, I figured I could live without it!

davidcole

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#2161253 15-Jan-2019 06:21

Geektastic:
I can say that I got a quote to install the wifi module into our Fujitsu (well, one of them - the other one wasn't possible) and the heat pump company said it would be about $700 from memory just to do that. Needless to say, I figured I could live without it!

Have a look in that blog post I linked, for a reference to nicegear ( @hads ). He details the arduino module and I don’t know if it’s Mitsubishi specific or if the hardware protocol is similar across Japanese hardware

billgates

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#2161256 15-Jan-2019 06:40

The Mitsubishi WiFi module is $250. Not cheap but also not too overpriced compared to others. But reading through, the module you want to get is the MAC-568IF-E as it supports Echonet Lite automation platform.

Noel Leeming and Harvey Norman are selling this module online for $299 and it’s user installable fairly easily.

Do whatever you want to do man.