Insulation, vapour barrier, running ethernet

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tigercorp

668 posts

Ultimate Geek

#249349 7-May-2019 11:27

Hi all,

We have a mid 70s weatherboard house that we're starting to pull the interior walls down to install insulation. Like Geekzone recommends in pretty much all of these situations :) we will use this time to run ethernet cable and get some power points moved.

I'm going to be doing the insulation, installing the new Gib and running the Cat6 and terminating it myself. Getting a plasterer for the gib stopping and obviously an electrician for the power points.

I'd appreciate any advice on the following...

Vapour barrier on the external facing walls.
Currently the exterior facing walls are lined with a rather thick aluminium looking foil which I believe is this stuff i.e from outside to inside it goes - weatherboard - black building paper - wooden frame - aluminium foil - Gib.
I've done a bit of reading and it seems that back in the day this was used as a sort of insulation & vapour barrier. Does anyone know if it's worth getting this installed again? I found this article which says it needs to be done by an approved installer.
Is there any value in getting a plastic vapour barrier for these walls? We live in sunny (today) but cold Dunedin.

Cat6 cable.
Reading through previous GZ threads it seems like solid UTP is the way to go. Just want to confirm that this is ok?
Also, can anyone recommend a place to get hardware like a punch down tool, patch panel, small rack, keystone jacks/plates? There's just too many options to work out the best bang for buck.

Thanks!

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3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2232213 7-May-2019 11:45

The reflective foil needs an air gap to operate. So no point installing it in walls that will be filled with insulation.

It also caused problems due to electrical faults making the foil live.

And another reason not to get the foil, it causes wifi and cellphone signal problems.

tigercorp

668 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2232215 7-May-2019 11:47

Aredwood: The reflective foil needs an air gap to operate. So no point installing it in walls that will be filled with insulation.

It also caused problems due to electrical faults making the foil live.

And another reason not to get the foil, it causes wifi and cellphone signal problems.

So the foil was mostly a type of insulation? I couldn't find anything clear on why it was used at all.

robfish

683 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2232219 7-May-2019 11:55

tigercorp:Cat6 cable.
Reading through previous GZ threads it seems like solid UTP is the way to go. Just want to confirm that this is ok?
Also, can anyone recommend a place to get hardware like a punch down tool, patch panel, small rack, keystone jacks/plates? There's just too many options to work out the best bang for buck.

Yes solid is what you use for permanent wiring and stranded for flexible cables (like patch leads).

You can get the tools from lots of places including Aliexpress. Make sure you get the correct RJ45 plugs though (for solid or stranded) They are different.

When you have an opportunity to tidy up wiring (while the linings are off) you should also consider the future. Put in draw wires (or strings) and conduits so that you can add stuff later and take photos befor you re-line the walls.

Rob

wratterus

1687 posts

Uber Geek

#2232222 7-May-2019 11:58

That Cat6 is perfect - definitely use solid core.

Any electrical wholesaler will have the necessary bits and pieces - you can choose what type of faceplates & jacks you want to match the powerpoints and switchgear.

The PDL 600 series are pretty standard, but I would definitely recommend checking out the HPM Excel Life series. Much more customizable, more modern looking and mostly cheaper. Perhaps you already have some of a certain type so just stick with that.

If you want to buy online, Electrical Direct Ltd have good stock.

If you want a 'proper' punch down tool, something like this is a good option.

robfish

683 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2232223 7-May-2019 11:59

I have all the tools needed and would be happy to lend to Christchurch Geekzoners

Rob

neb

11294 posts

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Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2232315 7-May-2019 16:29

tigercorp:
Cat6 cable.
Reading through previous GZ threads it seems like solid UTP is the way to go. Just want to confirm that this is ok?
Also, can anyone recommend a place to get hardware like a punch down tool, patch panel, small rack, keystone jacks/plates? There's just too many options to work out the best bang for buck.

For most of that there's not going to be much difference in price, I'd go with Jaycar if there's one nearby since they have a fairly extensive range.

If you don't mind using stranded, it's cheaper to buy an X metre network cable and cut the plugs off than to buy X metres of bare Cat5.

robfish

683 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2232368 7-May-2019 17:43

Stranded is not great to terminate into the RJ45 sockets though - it does not "punch down" easily.

Rob

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tigercorp

668 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2232653 8-May-2019 08:54

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.

@robfish - points noted about leaving draw wires in place and RJ45 solid specific connectors (I didn't know there was a difference!).

@wratterus - I had forgotten we are getting the power points and light switches replaced/updated so we will need to match faceplates/jacks. (the missus thinks this is the most important part of this thread...) And that punch down tool looks perfect.

I really like this hinged patch panel frame in this video. Does anyone know where I can find it locally? This appears to be it on Amazon.

wratterus

1687 posts

Uber Geek

#2232664 8-May-2019 09:12

WAF is generally the most important thing in these situations. 😋

trig42

5814 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2232669 8-May-2019 09:17

tigercorp:

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.

@robfish - points noted about leaving draw wires in place and RJ45 solid specific connectors (I didn't know there was a difference!).

@wratterus - I had forgotten we are getting the power points and light switches replaced/updated so we will need to match faceplates/jacks. (the missus thinks this is the most important part of this thread...) And that punch down tool looks perfect.

I really like this hinged patch panel frame in this video. Does anyone know where I can find it locally? This appears to be it on Amazon.

Computer Dynamics sell them, you'd just need to find a reseller who can order you one. Pretty sure PB Tech sell Dynamix product.

You'd just need the Patch panel, and maybe some cable management behind it.

https://cdlnz.com/PP-HWB100-2U

They have it in 3RU and 4RU too, as well as enclosed ones.

mdf

3516 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2233124 8-May-2019 16:17

If you've got time, I ordered a patch panel and bunch of keystones from Amazon (Cables Direct IIRC). Much cheaper than the prices I could get locally, and fit PDL 600 faceplate and clip adapter available here fine. Got the cable and tools from PB Tech. Plenty of YouTube videos on the right technique.

elpenguino

3424 posts

Uber Geek

#2233376 8-May-2019 22:49

tigercorp:

Hi all,

We have a mid 70s weatherboard house that we're starting to pull the interior walls down to install insulation. Like Geekzone recommends in pretty much all of these situations :) we will use this time to run ethernet cable and get some power points moved.

I'm going to be doing the insulation, installing the new Gib and running the Cat6 and terminating it myself. Getting a plasterer for the gib stopping and obviously an electrician for the power points.

Good on you for going the whole hog and doing it properly, (IMHO).

Unfortunately, life;s not so easy some times. Since 2014 IIUIC you need building consent to install insulation in external walls.

We've been through this recently and it cost us 2k to get a 'designer' grade LBP to do the paper work and another 2k to pay the council for consent. We had some other minor work bundled in but it was basically a re-line job.

Accordingly, you're probably in a position where you would seriously wonder if you should follow the system or just do it on the quiet. We chose to follow the system so we could get these other bits of work done and also because we borrowed the money and the bank would throw a wobbly if they found out we lied and said no consent was required when we knew it was.

OTOH a couple of building inspectors have said they wouldn't have bothered (and then each promptly said 'i didnt say that').

https://www.smarterhomes.org.nz/smart-guides/heating-cooling-and-insulation/insulation-existing-homes/

I can't quickly find a link to the 2014 code changes but have a google around , it's easy to find the ruling in black and white.

Back to your job - notes:

- you can't just slap GIB up - consult the gib installation document which shows how to install gib in a way to avoid cracking.

- you can't just slap GIB up -there are ways to install it to meet bracing specification(s). This will be more relevant if you go the pucker way and get a design from a LBP.

- while the linings are off , seal gaps around doors and floors with foam sausage and/or expanding foam. The requirement here is to only seal the inner part of any horizontal gap in case water sit on the material.

- get the biggliest rated insulation you can. I wish my house had 6 inch studs.

- plastering is actually not that hard (you don't need a degree to be a plasterer). Have a go at a wardrobe or something and you might be surprised.

Enjoy the benefits of your labours - insulating the walls of our house has made a world of difference to the comfort and that's without changing the glazing.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2233426 9-May-2019 01:15

Completely ridiculous that you need a consent to install insulation in walls. As it is just a large incentive for people to not install insulation. Did you actually do anything differently due to advice from the council? Or was the sole benefit just to obtain the consent?

The bigger risk with installing insulation is actually related to power cables. As older power cables were often installed on the assumption that they would be exposed to air. And if you insulate them, there is the risk that they would overheat and cause a fire. Yet has anyone ever gotten an electrician round to check the ratings of their power cables, and derate the fuses / circuit breakers. To ensure that the cables will still be safe, even when fully enclosed in insulation.

wratterus

1687 posts

Uber Geek

#2233466 9-May-2019 08:39

elpenguino:

[...Since 2014 IIUIC you need building consent to install insulation in external walls....

You must be kidding! This country is f.......

elpenguino

3424 posts

Uber Geek

#2233473 9-May-2019 08:54

wratterus:
elpenguino:

[...Since 2014 IIUIC you need building consent to install insulation in external walls....

You must be kidding! This country is f.......

I know, should be a permission free thing to do since so many homes are substandard wrt insulation.

I can see how it's come about after the leaky home crisis though. Before insulating I found a couple of places where small amounts of water were ingressing. An uninsulated wall allows minor leaks to dry out. Batts will soak it up over time and that's obviously going to give big problems.

So if u have perished building paper or a brick cavity insulating is more involved than just slapping in some Batts.

We know who the lawyers and home owners will go to for money when the repair bills start stacking up.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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