Solarcity Zero - Recent Experiences?

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networkn

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#251343 20-Jun-2019 10:59

So, Solarcity contacted me after I spoke to them a few years ago deciding that Solars too high up front cost was going to require a 15-18 year return on our upfront investment.

In theory, the idea seems kinda interesting. Zero upfront costs, you get a solar system AND battery based on 1 of 4 packages ranging from $85 per month to $150 per month + GST and this covers your electricity and the cost of the system.

Extra goes into the grid at 8c and spot prices for using from the grid sits between 10-14c at the moment.

The big catch is that it requires a 20-year contract and that if you sell your house, you have to pay out the contract, or the buyer has to take over the contract.

In theory I'll always require to pay for electricity, it's somewhat unlikely our power requirements will drastically change, and as best I can tell, the bigger systems would mean a saving of around $60-70 a month for us on electricity even on the big systems.

The big issue for me is that if we sell the house, we are liable for the payout amount (and I understand why) or trying to convince the new buyer to take the contract. I wonder how many of you would be prepared to buy a house you wanted, if that was a factor?

I had read recently that major breakthroughs had seen solar efficiency massively improve and costs dropped. I do wonder in real world terms, what that amounts to? Is it somewhat possible that if we waited 2 years, solar city panels would be more efficient and instead of the $150 package we could get the same energy input/output, that would mean we could have the $105 package?

Presumably, solar panels degrade over time, and so do batteries. Does anyone know by how much?

Does anyone have recent experience with Solarcity, the Zero product specifically, or have any general comments?

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#2261359 20-Jun-2019 11:01

I wouldnt want it on a house. They are in it as an investment and I would be giving them their return on that investment.

Richard rich.ms

networkn

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#2261361 20-Jun-2019 11:04

Solar in general or Solar City zero specifically? Would you instead opt to buy outright? Most systems we had quoted including a battery were over 20K!

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#2261365 20-Jun-2019 11:14

I think there is a thread here on that, or within a thread @Jayardee maybe?

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#2261367 20-Jun-2019 11:16

I was all for solar until I started to think outside the mainstream views and logic, much the same thing with EVs check https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

There seems to be a real push to Thorium nuclear reactors that are far less dangerous and unstable than Uranium and have a far smaller half life (300 years yes but way better than Uranium's 10's of thousands)

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#2261369 20-Jun-2019 11:20

Correction @JayADee

networkn

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#2261519 20-Jun-2019 15:08

langers1972:

I was all for solar until I started to think outside the mainstream views and logic, much the same thing with EVs check https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

There seems to be a real push to Thorium nuclear reactors that are far less dangerous and unstable than Uranium and have a far smaller half life (300 years yes but way better than Uranium's 10's of thousands)

Wow, that was a great listen thanks. The comments on that video were interesting as well, around smarter cooling etc.

The problem in my opinion is, there is very little chance of convincing the average Kiwi that installing a Nuclear powerplant here would be an acceptable concept. I am not opposed to it, so long as it was done "properly" and as safely as possible.

I did read a couple of years back that one small plant could provide NZ with about 80% of it's energy requirements cleanly.

JayADee

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#2261530 20-Jun-2019 15:40

tdgeek:
Correction @JayADee

Wasn’t with me but interestingly I poked that bear a bit just a few days ago or so by asking some questions on a Facebook post of theirs to a local community page such as 'what happens if your company goes belly up' and 'what happens if the client dies' and listing the cost of the total fees paid over 20 years.... trying to make local people realise they better check it out carefully.

I think maybe they blocked me because I can’t see any of their posts now?

According to someone who messengered me they never answered my questions. Also according to the same person there are other gotchas such as if you need your roof repaired or replaced Solarcity charges you to take the panels down etc.

Anyway, like buying a cell phone I’d never go on contract, it always costs more in the long run.
My next post, which I can’t do now, was going to be to tell people to have a lawyer explain the contract to them before signing...

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mattwnz

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#2261547 20-Jun-2019 16:19

Personally I would prefer to buy that sort of thing outright if I was going down that track. I think you would have to pay it off if you are selling your home, otherwise the buyers would likely discount the offer price based on it. Also what if you need to paint the roof, or maintain it under the panels? I would also only go down that track if there wasn't a mains connection nearby, or unless the numbers really stack up well. I know someone who had their own solar panels installed, but all goes back to the grid. They were waiting for tesla home wall batteries to come in, but not sure if they ever got it hooked up to them.

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#2261564 20-Jun-2019 17:13

JayADee:
tdgeek:

Correction @JayADee

Wasn’t with me but interestingly I poked that bear a bit just a few days ago or so by asking some questions on a Facebook post of theirs to a local community page such as 'what happens if your company goes belly up' and 'what happens if the client dies' and listing the cost of the total fees paid over 20 years.... trying to make local people realise they better check it out carefully.

I think maybe they blocked me because I can’t see any of their posts now?

According to someone who messengered me they never answered my questions. Also according to the same person there are other gotchas such as if you need your roof repaired or replaced Solarcity charges you to take the panels down etc.

Anyway, like buying a cell phone I’d never go on contract, it always costs more in the long run.
My next post, which I can’t do now, was going to be to tell people to have a lawyer explain the contract to them before signing...

:-) Ah. There is a girl here who I think does proof reading, must have been her! Cant recall her username but if I saw the avatar or her username Id recognise it.

I WANT solar PV. I KNOW it doesnt work financially, but I can justify it by saying its a 12 year payback, and after that with no "asset value" I can get free power. Which is true. My mate has 2 sets of panels, about 35k. He now has a Powerwall2 another 14k (now 18 I hear), 50 k all up. The Powerwall is so not worth it but I have his app on my phone, its very cool! BUT Today in ChCh it was sunny then cloudy. His Powerwall 2 right now is flat. No benefit

As I said, its not worth it. My mate at 5% would need to get back $2500 a year. My total power bill wont be that much (yay for Solar HW). But as my roof faces almost North (virtually perfect)I am KEEN AS. I felt that say just 5 or 6 kW I will get optimal . id get a Powerwall2 just cos I can. But I cant as while my house is largish at 283sqm, the roof is intricate, so the area where the Solar tubes are, can only support 1.7 kW so a no go

As for these "plans" If solar is worth it, get it, as if you get these schemes, you get what you can buy outright, less their cut. You end up paying a monthly fee, but you have to remember that with PV, you get GREAT generation in Summer when you dont need it and a huge amount less in Winter when you do. Your winter power bill will still be high, plus those payments. With Solar HW, 5BR house, 2 heat pumps, my summer power bill is 100, winter 250. Winter includes 2 bathrooms with heated floor, heated early morning and night (not 24/7)

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#2261792 21-Jun-2019 09:13

I also really wanted solar to stack up way back when we started renovating. The two of us are just under the 8000 KWH low user threshold for electricity. We are using bottled gas for cooking and hot water though, about 9 tanks a year.

tdgeek

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#2261798 21-Jun-2019 09:22

JayADee: I also really wanted solar to stack up way back when we started renovating. The two of us are just under the 8000 KWH low user threshold for electricity. We are using bottled gas for cooking and hot water though, about 9 tanks a year.

As I see it, if you can have the panels at close to optimum, and can actively manage timeshifting, and are in your forever home, you can maximise generation and use of that generation. Down the track, after payback, its more or less free what you generate.

Someone said here, buy an EV instead, you will save money each km

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#2261814 21-Jun-2019 09:56

My Parents used SolarCity about 4 years ago.

They paid for the system outright, no batteries but grid connected.

As they are retired, they are home during the day, so a bit better for them than being out all day not using power.

Dad did the sums, and knew it wasn't super economically beneficial, but they liked the idea of 'doing their bit' and also the idea of lower power bills (probably for the rest of their lives).

They have a 4 bedroom house, their power bills are about $30-40/month in summer (sometimes less), and about $70-80 in Winter (from memory). Electric hot water and cooking. They are happy with the 'investment'.

empacher48

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#2261815 21-Jun-2019 10:02

We have had the Solarcity system on our roof for over a year now and have had savings in our power bill over and above what we used to have. Although the savings in power would be greater if we bought the system outright, there are other reasons I went down this route.

It should be known that we always have someone at home during the day and we have adjusted things like our hot water heating and large appliance use to happen mostly during the day. But as we are a family of five, not everything can be done when the sun is up!

Initially we had nine panels installed on our roof and were selling about 20% of the power we generated back into the grid, but about three months ago, Solarcity offered us a battery install for a small increase in our monthly bill, which we have taken advantage of.

But what attracted us to them were:

As we don't own the system, anything that causes the system to become faulty will be replaced by solarcity. We had one micro-inverter that failed on a panel shortly after being installed and was replaced about a week after it failed. I didn't even know it had failed, but they were alerted to it and organised someone to come out and replace it.
One free battery replacement. So when the battery does eventually fail to store enough charge it will be replaced. Panasonic provide the battery and say it should be good for ten years. In ten years time the new battery then should be a lot more advanced than the one day.
Solarcity negotiate your grid power (if you want them to). They are able to negotiate very good "time of use" rates through Pulse and Electric Kiwi (our rate through Pulse was about 7c/Kwh cheaper than what they advertised to the public). With the time of use, the battery charges from the grid from 1am to 4am and then discharges from 7am through to 11am. Then will recharge using the excess solar during the day and top itself off from the grid between 2pm and 4pm, then discharge again from 5pm to about 8 or 9pm. So you use the battery during the most expensive time of day.
Should the system they install become too large or too small, they will add and replace panels to ensure you get the most efficient use from the system and adjust the fee they charge accordingly for the balance of the term.

Yes 20 years is a long term to be locked in with them and I haven't thought too hard about what will happen if we decide to sell one day. There are questions if they will still be here in 20 years, but looking at the people who back it financially, I think it will still be, but like everything you do, there is a risk involved and you have to work out if the risk is worth it for you.

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#2261828 21-Jun-2019 10:27

trig42:

My Parents used SolarCity about 4 years ago.

They paid for the system outright, no batteries but grid connected.

As they are retired, they are home during the day, so a bit better for them than being out all day not using power.

Dad did the sums, and knew it wasn't super economically beneficial, but they liked the idea of 'doing their bit' and also the idea of lower power bills (probably for the rest of their lives).

They have a 4 bedroom house, their power bills are about $30-40/month in summer (sometimes less), and about $70-80 in Winter (from memory). Electric hot water and cooking. They are happy with the 'investment'.

Home most days is a big plus. $70- $80 in Winter seems really low. Sun still works but much less optimally.

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#2261839 21-Jun-2019 11:15

@SaltyNZ posted the following in the Leaf [edit - sorry, general EV] thread, but it's worth repeating in this context:

SaltyNZ:

Interesting (though anecdotal) article on The Spinoff today in regards to what makes the most impact on your greenhouse gas emissions: solar panels or an EV?