Experience with HRV / Panasonic ducted heat pumps / air conditioning

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timmmay

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#280237 3-Dec-2020 13:07

We're looking for a ducted heating / air conditioning unit, to remove the high wall heat pump and oil heaters, make things quieter, and get back floor space from oil heaters. Our high wall Fujitsu is pretty loud, even on "super quiet" we have to turn the TV up to hear it.

HRV gave me a quote which was $8300 installed for a four outlet 7kw unit (living / sleeping areas), or $10,300 for a six outlet 10 kw unit (includes dining area), which I thought was pretty good. Not sure if that includes WiFi control, I think so, but includes a 7 day timer. This is for the R32 compact model, S-60PE1R5B indoor unit and U-60RZ2R5 for the 7kw. They put a 1 square meter return vent in the hallway though, which is pretty huge - might ask for a smaller option.

One key thing we want to achieve is having bedrooms cooler than lounge - we often want the lounge at 22 degrees or so, but bedrooms more like 19, especially since our son goes to bed 7pm and we're up for a few hours after that. HRV / Panasonic don't do zoning as they said it's expensive and not many people buy it. HRV said they can use dampers to adjust how much air goes to each room, so they can do "pseudo" zoning. That's probably good enough since I can change the balance myself.

How do people who have them finding the HRV / Panasonic units? Do they have decent 7 days timers? How's the noise level, compared with a high wall unit? Any other upsides or downsides?

timmmay

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#2615654 3-Dec-2020 15:27

Going to tag a few people I think might have one.

@jjnz1 @blakamin @Rmani @MrMistofeles

MrMistofeles

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#2615868 3-Dec-2020 20:04

We ended up going with a Mitsubishi PEAD-M125JAA (14kW) with an AirTouch4 for zone control (The air touch is a 3rd party product which works with most heat pumps whether or not the manufacturer offers wifi/zone control themselves, and in most cases it's better).

We have 4 zones upstairs (lounge, kitchen, bed1, study) and 2 zones downstairs (bed2, bed3) which are each independently controllable (1 temp sensor and 1 automatic damper per zone). Plus google home integration which I find useful but others may not.

The indoor unit is virtually silent except on high (which I only use to purge the air in the basement periodically), even on high I only hear it when standing underneath the return (it is quieter than all of the other appliances in the house). We don't get any air noises but our 50's house does creak a bit when first heating up/cooling down.

The outdoor unit was a more complicated story. Initially we had an issue with the compressor which meant during maximum compression cycles the noise level was ~74dB. This was annoying to us but it really pissed our neighbor off. The installers replaced the compressor under manufacturers warranty and moved the unit to the other side of the property (away from the grouchy neighbor). Now during compression it's about ~60dB, fan noise about 55dB. I don't hear it unless I'm in the study and I have a server in there making some amount of noise so it's kind of moot.

In Wellington on cold mornings it took about 2 hours to heat up our 4 zones upstairs from say ~6 degrees to ~21 degrees (we have single glazing and no wall / floor insulation). I'm sure it would be much faster to heat a single zone but we don't use it like that.

Cost us $15200 with a bit of a discount for cutting out the wall/ceiling grilles myself, I think the AirTouch4 wifi/zone control system was ~$3500 of that.

jjnz1

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#2615873 3-Dec-2020 20:17

Here is our quote from 2018 from EES, now HRV.

Our 10kw unit is awesome. Just right for a 130m2 well insulated house.

Very quiet compared to high walls we had before.
Air doesn't dry out like it does with a high unit too, so no runny noses etc.

We leave ours on most of the time at 20, all year round.

Adds about $120 per month to our power bill.

We got another credit of another $1000 due to poor quality install. Make sure you check their work and don't pay the last portion without being fully happy.

We have the wifi unit but it has never worked (part of the credit too). They could only install it using the WDS button on our wifi router but we have Google WiFi and Pfsense, so they couldn't get it going. I took a quick look and the wifi unit is completely dead with no lights so who knows.

No idea about 7 day timer. As I said we just leave ours on. During the day we also leave our 4m stacking doors wide open to our lounge and the unit still keeps the bedrooms and lounge etc cool.

timmmay

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#2615890 3-Dec-2020 20:41

Thanks guys, that's useful.

MrMistofeles I don't think it's worth $15K to me, that's double the HRV quote. Sounds good though, maybe for a new house.

@jjnz1 that sounds pretty good, except the poor install and parts not working. I think I'll skip the Wifi. We're only doing half the house, leaving the kitchen with a high wall, so the slightly smaller unit should be good. How's the noise on the Panasonic unit? My wife doesn't like the sound of a 1 square meter return grill, do you notice it up there? Sounds good about the air quality. When we had a baby home all the time we left it on 24/7, now we have it on a lot but turn it off when we're not there and have it come on a few hours before we get home. In summer it'll just be for occasional cooling, winter on a lot more.

Would you buy the Panasonic again from HRV, or go elsewhere?

liquidcore

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#2615902 3-Dec-2020 21:49

We have the exact same model installed by HRV/EES around 12 months ago. I managed to get the price down to $7500 after informing them of a very competitive quote from Oxygen Air for a comparable Fujitsu unit.

It was great last summer and our daughter was born in July, so was heavily used during the winter months as well.

The return vent is close to our bedroom door and it isn't much more than a bit of white noise - very different to the Panasonic split unit we have downstairs where the fan speed varies.

The 7 day timer is okay - you can set up to 5 actions for each day, including on, off, and on at a set temperature. Only downside is you cannot specify the mode when it turns on and it will just use the mode it was in when it was last turned off.

The other thing is I do not actually know where the temperature sensor is located but it's pretty interesting - in summer we seldom drop it below 21 for cooling and in winter we seldom have it above 19 for heating. So either the unit is over-specced for the size of our upstairs, or the sensor is in an odd place.

The installation was relatively good - all done in one day. Only unfortunate thing is the return vent is in the middle of a large piece of gib that was already sagging a bit/not level, so a crack has formed in the gib. Since the return vent isn't perfectly level, the grille hangs lower in one corner than the other.

timmmay

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#2615906 3-Dec-2020 21:58

Thanks @liquidcore that's really useful. Why did you go with HRV / Panasonic over Oxygen / Fujitsu? Their current special of $7K on the Fujitsu is pretty sharp.

Sounds like most people are pretty happy with HRV / Panasonic, they're fairly quiet, and the install while not great is acceptable.

liquidcore

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#2615908 3-Dec-2020 22:04

From memory, the Fujitsu used R410A instead of R32.

I was also not particularly impressed with the service Oxygen Air provided, despite their rave reviews on Google.

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mrdrifter

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#2615910 3-Dec-2020 22:33

liquidcore: From memory, the Fujitsu used R410A instead of R32.

That's correct, the Fujitsu units mostly use the older refrigerant and they haven't really updated their technology in quite a few years for their ducted units in particular. They have been updating their split systems as so many people buy them.

Rmani

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#2616332 4-Dec-2020 13:47

We went ahead with Panasonic + HRV and are happy with it. Boss is very sensitive and would feel cold even if there is slight drop in outside temperature. So, temperature inside would always be around 22. Noise is very less compared to the high wall Fujitsu.

Ours is a single level home, so didn't bother to zone it. We haven't used the 7day timer, as it's almost always on.

Let me know if you need any further information.

Rmani

timmmay

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#2616338 4-Dec-2020 14:05

Interesting, thanks. I'm pretty happy that they're good value and will do a good job. Just waiting for a quote from another outfit Monday.

I've been reading that the standard diffusers aren't great, and that the Holyoake ones are better. I've asked HRV if they can provide or if I would have to get them myself. Wondering how the noise is on the Holyoake ones. @gedc any opinions on noise for the Holyoake diffusers?

I just called Holyoake and the diffusers are kinda smart. Air goes down in heating mode, but when it's cooling it goes sideways. They cost $50 + GST each. They sell to the public over the phone, you can call into their office in Auckland / Wellington (Tawa).

timmmay

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#2634023 12-Jan-2021 08:24

HRV have done their site inspection. Looking for people who have ducted systems to check they can't see any issues with it. They're saying:

200mm diffusers will go in the corner of the room away from the door, not directly above a bed / sofa (they will use the Holyoake diffusers I supply)
Return air grill will be about 400 x 800mm, it'll go in the hallway just outside the lounge, not far from the bedrooms
The lounge will be on its own single output from the roof heat pump unit, giving it high airflow
Two bedrooms will be on an output from the roof heat pump unit, reducing the airflow a bit (as we requested)
The bedroom that is rarely used will be on its own output from the heat pump unit, so we can turn it off most of the time

My main questions:

Corners ok with the Holyoake diffusers? The other installers said they usually go for middle of the room, but we have lights in the middle of the bedrooms
I want to be able to change the airflow to each room, which I'm told we can do with dampers, manually. For example one bedroom gets heaps of sun in summer so may need more airflow. Should each room be on its own direct heat pump output?
We want the lounge to be warmer than the bedrooms in winter. If because of #2 each output is own its own heat pump output would we want two outlets in the lounge? They won't do a larger 250mm diffuser, they don't have ducting for it.