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timmmay

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#281456 19-Feb-2021 08:11
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We have a new ducted heating system. When we turn it on the house starts to smell like the roof space, which has a distinctive smell especially when it's hot. It's the smell of old wood, three types of insulation, borer poison (which is apparently harmless to humans), etc, etc, in an old house. Last time I smelled it I went into the ceiling space and found a rip in the ventilation system duct, which I fixed and the smell went away.

 

The heat pump supplier said they have checked but cannot find the source of the smell ingress. I suspect they think I'm making it up.

 

Any suggestions how we might find the leak? It must be between the air return and the heat pump input, not on the output between the heat pump and diffusers. I wondered if fake smoke from the hardware store meant for testing smoke alarms might help, spray it in particular locations and see if it comes out the vents, but it might disperse through the motor and not be visible.


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geoffwnz
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  #2659419 19-Feb-2021 09:25
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My first thought was some sort of smoke/fog generator also.  But that's potentially hard to isolate.  Can you disconnect an end and shine a light inside the ducting and then check for pinpoint holes down the pipe?

 

Of course, it might be one of the ends that's not fully sealed on its fitting.

 

How good are the filtration parts at removing all smells from the source air?







timmmay

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  #2659503 19-Feb-2021 10:20
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A light on a disconnected duct is a good idea. Access is a bit tricky but I'll suggest that. Double layer ducts as well I'm told, insulation between the layers.

 

I have no idea what filters are in place or how good the filters are. I suspect the only filter is a simple one in the return grill so it if we put smoke into the ceiling cavity it won't be filtered out. The ventilation system which is separate has HEPA and charcoal filters so the house air is reasonably fresh. The ducted pump should just be circulating this fresh air, positive pressure pushes some air out of the house when it's turned on. We don't really want dirty ceiling cavity air in the house.


blackjack17
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  #2659506 19-Feb-2021 10:25
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could you close off all the vents and then put it on max and work your way along the pipes listening







timmmay

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  #2659510 19-Feb-2021 10:42
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blackjack17:

 

could you close off all the vents and then put it on max and work your way along the pipes listening

 

 

The company did put the system on max fan to check. Closing off all vents probably wouldn't help, it means the heat pump is pushing air through that has nowhere to go so it could cause problems on the output as those things have pretty huge motors in them. The ducted unit in the roof is the size of a coffee table and on high it pushes a lot of air through.


Batman
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  #2659515 19-Feb-2021 10:54
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i'm not sure if pressurizing the duct is a good idea. you might create new leaks


timmmay

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  #2659518 19-Feb-2021 11:02
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Batman:

 

i'm not sure if pressurizing the duct is a good idea. you might create new leaks

 

 

Yeah, pushing through a closed duct the air has to go somewhere. There are roof dampers that I can open and close, but if I close them all I already accidentally found that air goes through anyway, probably not good for it though. The installers set up the dampers so that the control positions are inconsistent, so adjusting them was difficult until I asked them to fix it.


 
 
 

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MadEngineer
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  #2659537 19-Feb-2021 11:48
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Spray your strongest smelling perfume in small spot quantities around suspected areas, keeping the spray from wafting to other areas until you can find the smell coming out of the vents

Alternatively use multiple different perfumes and spray one at each extreme of the system one at a time until you start to smell it, then you’ll know from which area it’s in. Allow the smell to dissipate or change the perfume to further narrow it down.

Dabbing pure essential oils might be a healthier option




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  #2659542 19-Feb-2021 11:57
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I'd first check the filter itself.  Make sure it is fitted properly, and not an el cheapo.


timmmay

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  #2659555 19-Feb-2021 12:11
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duckDecoy:

 

I'd first check the filter itself.  Make sure it is fitted properly, and not an el cheapo.

 

 

Everything came direct from Panasonic. The filter is inside the return vent so I don't think this could be the cause.


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  #2659802 19-Feb-2021 14:34
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Has it done this since installation, or is the smell new?


timmmay

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  #2659871 19-Feb-2021 15:17
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RunningMan:

Has it done this since installation, or is the smell new?



Both. The system is two weeks old.

 
 
 

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RunningMan
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  #2659874 19-Feb-2021 15:26
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Are the plenums sealed to the roof unit? You might find if they are screws or riveted then there is an air leak around the plenum, or even along the seams of the plenum. Duct tape along the seams would cure it.


Kickinbac
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  #2659978 19-Feb-2021 20:33
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timmmay:
RunningMan:

Has it done this since installation, or is the smell new?



Both. The system is two weeks old.


I was going to say to replace the flexi duct. Chances are that the internal flexi has split. Some silver flexi will split down the wire and keep unraveling. The external sleeve of an insulated flexiduct usually stops air but needs to be taped properly. So possibly leaking in two places.

timmmay

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  #2659988 19-Feb-2021 21:54
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RunningMan:

 

Are the plenums sealed to the roof unit? You might find if they are screws or riveted then there is an air leak around the plenum, or even along the seams of the plenum. Duct tape along the seams would cure it.

 

 

I'll have a look tomorrow thanks.

 

Kickinbac:

I was going to say to replace the flexi duct. Chances are that the internal flexi has split. Some silver flexi will split down the wire and keep unraveling. The external sleeve of an insulated flexiduct usually stops air but needs to be taped properly. So possibly leaking in two places.

 

Interesting, worth considering. If I was the vendor that put brand new ducting in I would probably want some kind of evidence before I did that. So I guess I still need a prove there is a leak before they would do something like that. It's probably a couple of hundreds dollars worth of ducting just between the return grill and the heat pump. They weren't super careful with ducting, maybe they split it, I had them replace the heat pump outdoor unit top cover because they put a few big scratches in it as well. They did a good job generally though as far as I can tell.


andrewNZ
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  #2660019 19-Feb-2021 23:56
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If you are smelling roof in the house, then there is little point in checking the ducting and fittings output (blow) side of the fan.
The leak surely has to be coming from the input (suction) side of the system.

Putting the system on high and hoping to hear leaks seems unlikely to yield results either, the fan will probably make more noise than the leak.

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