Infra-red heating suggestions or alternate options.

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Eva888

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#282614 1-Mar-2021 15:16

Can anyone suggest a reliable, good quality infra-red heater to hard wire into a tenancy with a small living room. I don’t want to install a heat pump.

Any other suggestion welcome as long as it’s economical and safe for the tenants to run.

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#2666308 1-Mar-2021 15:40

Curious why you want IR heater? My understanding is that's more of a radiant type heat, heating objects rather than the air, though of course the room contents then heat the air. I wonder how good that would be furnishings, electronics, etc.

Eva888

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#2666312 1-Mar-2021 15:51

I read that they are not as power hungry as heat pumps and efficient. Honestly I have no idea which are the best options so open to any suggestions.

Fred99

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#2666330 1-Mar-2021 16:22

Eva888: I read that they are not as power hungry as heat pumps and efficient. Honestly I have no idea which are the best options so open to any suggestions.

Keep reading, until you find one with the correct advice - heat pumps are less power hungry than radiant heaters because they're much more efficient.

blackjack17

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#2666338 1-Mar-2021 16:38

Eva888: Can anyone suggest a reliable, good quality infra-red heater to hard wire into a tenancy with a small living room. I don’t want to install a heat pump.

Any other suggestion welcome as long as it’s economical and safe for the tenants to run.

A IR heater would be unlikely to meet the new health homes standard. Have you calculated the Kw you need?

https://www.tenancy.govt.nz/heating-tool/

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Eva888

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#2666358 1-Mar-2021 17:21

I’ve read a number of comparisons and reviews which is why I thought to go with infrared. Our own heat pump is useless on a very cold night. The heat doesn’t reach the floor level and I turn on a fan heater on the floor to boost it, and it’s not a small unit either. Friends just got new ones installed and are unhappy with both the noise and the heat output of a floor model. It’s a pricey investment if it doesn’t work well.

I’m asking here in case others have experience with other types of heating.

https://www.infracomfort.co.nz/2021/how-does-far-infrared-compare-with-heat-pumps/

Sure they may be banging their own drum, but the life of the units even halved is very attractive.

pih

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#2666366 1-Mar-2021 17:49

Location? Sounds like you're further south which means that many of the lower priced heat pumps will indeed be less efficient during cold days/nights, but as someone else has noted there are calculations you need to apply to make sure that you're meeting the standard.

You could slap on a few wall mounted convection panels, but I think you'll find that sourcing a good heart pump will be a better bet on the long run, and certainly cheaper for the tenants (or whoever pays the power). Heat pumps, usually even low end ones on cold nights, are anywhere from 2-7 (iirc) times more efficient in terms of power used to heat provided than anything that's purely electrical. You just have to get the right unit for both the size and spec room, plus the location/climate. If you're not happy with your unit, find someone local who is happy with their heat pump and hit them up for a referral to their installer.

Eva888

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#2666371 1-Mar-2021 17:56

Location is Wellington and Southerlies can be pretty cold. Another reason I’m not wanting a heat pump is because of an outside unit in a narrow access way. Heat pump will be the last resort.

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Eva888

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#2666374 1-Mar-2021 18:03

Saw some Noirot Spot Plus convection heaters, French, with lifetime guarantee whatever that means.

shk292

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#2666388 1-Mar-2021 19:06

Eva888: I’ve read a number of comparisons and reviews which is why I thought to go with infrared. Our own heat pump is useless on a very cold night. The heat doesn’t reach the floor level and I turn on a fan heater on the floor to boost it, and it’s not a small unit either. Friends just got new ones installed and are unhappy with both the noise and the heat output of a floor model. It’s a pricey investment if it doesn’t work well.

I’m asking here in case others have experience with other types of heating.

https://www.infracomfort.co.nz/2021/how-does-far-infrared-compare-with-heat-pumps/

Sure they may be banging their own drum, but the life of the units even halved is very attractive.

There is a lot of rubbish and bias on that comparison, eg:

Heat pumps dry the air - not in heating mode they don't
completely spurious use case of cooling with doors and windows open
uneven warmth - there is not much less even than a radiant heater
short economic life - I have three heatpumps, all installed 15 years ago, all still working perfectly

The inescapable fact is that a radiant heat delivers exactly 1 watt of heat for every watt of electricity, whereas heatpumps will deliver 2-4 watts

richms

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#2666390 1-Mar-2021 19:20

IR heating is great in places where you want a small area heated, like working in a drafty garage, or a small corner of a large room that noone else is in so heating it all is a waste. Not for a normal living space. Aircon is the way to go, properly sized and from a decent brand. The totally crap ones are not able to be sold in NZ now, you used to see them around a couple of junkmerchants with a note that they are for export to the islands only, but it seems that even that has stopped now.

Urban Wellington isnt cold enough to stop them working properly even if its a less good one, but undersizing it and expecting them to heat a cold house up from stone cold in a short time will lead to disappointment which seems to be how most people run them.

Right now you could put the minimum in to comply with the new laws, but at some point the market will cool down (lol) and then you will have a less desirable property than people that have put in what needs to be done. That may mean lower rent or not able to rent to as desirable people. So you will have to put one in when you refresh the property at a later stage anyway.

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timmmay

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#2666437 1-Mar-2021 19:39

Heat pumps are by far the most efficient heating. I've had Fujitsu and Daikin heat pumps, both have worked great in winter in Wellington. The Daikin is about 12 years old and will need to be replaced in the next year or two I think, the Fujitsu was 9 years old when we removed it to put in a ducted Panasonic unit but it was going fine. You can buy second hand heat pumps for not very much money, $250 maybe, but it will cost about $1000 to get them installed and there's more risk than a new unit.

You don't just turn a heat pump on when you want the house warm, in the middle of winter you're best using its timer to it on a couple of hours in advance, or just turning it down to 18 when you're out and back up when you're home. You still need good insulation otherwise you're just throwing money away. If your heat isn't reaching the floor try using the settings to have it direct the air more downwards. If it's installed really high in an area with really high ceilings like a cathedral ceiling they don't work well, at least they didn't in the hotel we were in that had one. In that case the ceiling is probably poorly insulated and you'd want a floor unit and to leave it on all the time.

In a small standard lounge a heat pump would work great but the payback time might not be worthwhile. The heat can sometimes leave the room and help heat the rest of the house which might help.

Otherwise all other types of electric heats are equally efficient. One unit of power is converted to one unit of heat. I'd use a fan heater myself, you can direct it somewhat and it's instant.

richms

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#2666445 1-Mar-2021 19:53

timmmay:

Otherwise all other types of electric heats are equally efficient. One unit of power is converted to one unit of heat. I'd use a fan heater myself, you can direct it somewhat and it's instant.

Efficiant, yes, but not all as effective. Radiant heat is much better when you want to heat small areas than a fan heater. But expecting people to live like that is absurd and why people hate landlords for suggesting that.

Richard rich.ms

Mehrts

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#2666504 1-Mar-2021 20:35

Infrared heaters work absolutely brilliantly for outdoor areas or bathrooms when you first get out of the shower on a cold morning due to the radiant heat warming your body directly. You don't waste any power by trying to heat the air like most "conventional" heating methods.

However, I would never place one indoors as a main source of heat for living areas. Heat pumps also have the massive benefit of being able to cool & remove humidity on hot, humid days. It means the difference between having a decent night's sleep, or tossing and turning because you're too hot and sticky.

As others have already said, heat pumps are very efficient. The only major cost is the initial install, which for a rental I know this is the cost you're concerned about. Take a look at the EECA website, and see if you're eligible for a home heating grant, however I think it mainly applies to homeowners rather than landlords.

Scott3

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#2666506 1-Mar-2021 20:52

If it is a tenancy, it means the healthy homes standard needs to be followed, or the landlord is breaking the law.

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2019/0088/latest/whole.html

In short, the required heat load for the lounge needs to be calculated. If this comes in less than 2.4kW (quite unlikely) then fixed electric heater's (of greater than 1.5kW each) are ok as long as they are fixed and have thermostats.

But in the highly likely event that the required heating exceeds 2.4kW, certain types or heaters are not allowed (open fires, unflued gas heater, and electric heaters other than heat pumps.). This means that it is highly likely that a heatpump or flued gas heater will need to be installed to comply with the above law.

There are a few exemptions like where is is not reasonable practicable to install qualifying heating devices (such as protected heritage buildings), where the building is certified passive etc. Also if there is already a slightly undersized compliant heating device, it's capacity can be topped up.

Regarding the dislike for heat pumps, the only realistic alternative is a flued gas heater if the dwelling is connected to natural gas. You can get these used of trademe for like $600 and have a licenced gas fitter install them at a reasonable cost. There is no outdoor unit (other than an exhaust pipe), they are fairly quiet, their output doesn't drop off with outside temperature, and unlike heat pumps the y don't blow a lot of air around. On natural gas the running costs are reasonable too (but more than a heat pump on standard user power). I wouldn't bother if on LPG due to running costs being more than double.

Personally I love our heat pump. It is 6 or so years old now. A highwall from one of the cheaper brands (Panasonic). Its a really big unit (cira 8kW), and a bit noisy, but worth it for us. No issue blowing hot air down to the floor. That said I have stayed in a place with a floor mounted heatpump which quite nice. Note that the smaller units are typically quieter than the larger ones. If the tenancy is quite small, it is likely that only a fairly small heat-pump will be required.

With the narrow access way I think the heat pumps need something like 2m clear in front of them to get max efficiency (but I see heaps installed that ignore that and still work fine). If this is a deal-breaker, there are way's to get around it. - Mount the outdoor unit above head height on the wall, on the roof, or around a corner. Max pipe run is typically 20 - 40m so there is quite a bit of flexibility here, but you do pay meter for the extra pipe.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2666539 1-Mar-2021 23:07

If you're having heat pump issues, first thing is to check that the filters and coil are clean. They need to be cleaned frequently, depending on how often they're used. Also try to keep the vanes angled dead ahead; sharp angles cause a lot more noise and restriction.

It should be able to maintain roughly a 20C temp rise (e.g. 15C air in, 35C air out if not more) under lazy test conditions - normal day (well above freezing), room temp ~15C, controller set to 30C, auto fan speed. Give it a few minutes to warm up.

If it can't achieve that 20C rise, you might need to get a service - refrigerant leak, piping issues, outdoor coil dirty, or more serious problems.

For some reason MoE is in love with radiant heat for new (high) schools, I assume at least partly due to higher ceilings being common.

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