Leak in corner of window

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neb

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#290249 29-Oct-2021 16:40

There's a leak in a corner of one of the windows at the Casa which has probably been there for some time, during the rebuild the builders noticed some black mould (but no rot anywhere) on the side of the stud, saw that there was no weep hole in the alu frame so water was getting in and not out again, and installed one:

Using a pinless moisture meter (brilliant invention!), the area within the red circle reads alarm-level moisture, and the area within the yellow one around 70%, consistent with the water coming in via a corner of the frame, running down the stud, and collecting at the bottom:

The meter actually provides a pretty good heat map of where the problem is, you can see the moisture levels rising from 15%-odd everywhere else on that wall on a slow curve until it alarms at 90+%.

The outside is this:

Talked to a glazier about the seal and they said the seal is to hold the glass in, not keep water out. Water can get in and then out through the weep hole, but it's obviously not doing that despite there being no obstructions anywhere that I can detect.

Any ideas? Specifically ones that involve the least amount of required destruction of window or wall to implement...

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#2803785 29-Oct-2021 17:17

Just keep an open mind about the source of entry,

It may not be the corner, but somewhere else and then the water is running down the inside of the frame ( its extruded alu so its easy for water to more around)

Your first point of attack is probably to remove the interior reveals and see if that gives you any clues about whats going on...

robbyp

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#2803807 29-Oct-2021 17:53

I think with some aluminum frames, they drainout through behind the bottom of the frame. Could that third party sill could potentially be blocking drainage? Shouldn't there normally be a gap between the two? I notice on door sills for instance, they drill a hole in the bottom of the extrusion to allow water to drain out through the bottom. You often see on new builds, water sitting in the door sills where adequate holes haven't been drilled.. The mitred corner also maybe wicking water in by capillary as don't they just use silicon and it may eventually break down over time as it is a long term durability thing?

neb

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#2803812 29-Oct-2021 18:05

robbyp:
I think with some aluminum frames, they drainout through behind the bottom of the frame.

I checked the other frames of the same vintage and they had weep holes at the locations where the builders added one. From probing around with a piece of wire there's a solid shelf just below where the hole is that isolates the triangular portion from the lower part of the frame, so it looks like water is supposed to be kept up in the triangular portion.

Unfortunately I don't know the internal geometry of the frame, I did a bit of searching but couldn't find any obvious match.

jonherries

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#2803813 29-Oct-2021 18:06

Few thoughts:

There is often silicon in the corner of the frame. It may have broken in the Reno as the frame was shifted. This would mean water leaking on the sill.
The drain I see (assume it is the drilled hole) drains the bead not the frame. There are normally drains behind the bottom edge of the frame.
As mentioned above it may be leaking from the head of the window rather the the sill.

Jon

neb

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#2803821 29-Oct-2021 18:31

These had no silicone anywhere, just gaps where the seals didn't quite meet up. I assumed that was the problem, but the glaziers said that the seal was to keep the glass in, not water out. That didn't sound quite right, but they were the glaziers and not me :-).

Here's some comparison photos of a known-good window, first the weep hole:

and the side of the frame:

I added the silicone you can see in the corner because I didn't quite trust what the glaziers said.

neb

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#2803828 29-Oct-2021 18:48

Some more photos, pre-installed vs. builder-install weep hole windows:

As far as I can see they're identical, and I used a piece of wire to feel around inside both and they're clear all the way to the edge of the frame.

jonherries

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#2803831 29-Oct-2021 19:11

There is a joint where the side and bottom of frame comes together - ie. the 45deg cut in the aluminium it is “in the window”. Normally you would need to remove the rubber and the glass, squirt silicon into the corner then reglaze.

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jonherries

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#2803832 29-Oct-2021 19:21

This is slightly different as I am recycling an insert but illustrates what I mean - silicon goes in the yellow circle.

Ropata

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#2803836 29-Oct-2021 19:29

I take it there is zero condensation on the inside of this window ever?

Technofreak

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#2803894 29-Oct-2021 21:13

jonherries: There is a joint where the side and bottom of frame comes together - ie. the 45deg cut in the aluminium it is “in the window”. Normally you would need to remove the rubber and the glass, squirt silicon into the corner then reglaze.

I agree it's something like this allowing the water that would normally come out the drain hole to seep out off the cavity and into the wooden frame.

Is it possible to remove the piece (strip) of aluminium that sits above the drain hole and slopes back to the glass? I think your problem lies in the area covered by that strip.

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Technofreak

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#2803896 29-Oct-2021 21:16

neb: These had no silicone anywhere, just gaps where the seals didn't quite meet up. I assumed that was the problem, but the glaziers said that the seal was to keep the glass in, not water out. That didn't sound quite right, but they were the glaziers and not me :-).

I agree with the glaziers. That's why there's a drain hole.

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neb

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#2803918 29-Oct-2021 22:13

Ropata:
I take it there is zero condensation on the inside of this window ever?

Yep, no condensation, we keep the windows open a bit so never have condensation, but with this room specifically the windows are closed and there's a dehumidifier set up in there to deal with the moisture coming in. So the room is bone dry, any moisture is coming in from outside.

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#2805912 2-Nov-2021 08:51

A window expert told us to cut a piece of scotch scouring pad and stick it over the weep holes because with strong wind it was causing capillary action and sucking in water.

neb

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#2806433 2-Nov-2021 22:51

Eva888:
A window expert told us to cut a piece of scotch scouring pad and stick it over the weep holes because with strong wind it was causing capillary action and sucking in water.

Interesting, that side of the house gets a lot of wind so it could be a contributing factor. The builder is dropping by later in the week so I'll mention it then.

pih

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#2806508 3-Nov-2021 07:56

Yep, I agree with the glaziers, the rubber seal is not to keep water out, and sticking a bit of silicone in the corner where there's a gap in the seal won't actually help.

I had this exact problem in a previous house (and sold it for this and other maintenance reasons). It's a lot of work but what I did to fix it was remove the glass, clean out the alu frame corner joint really well with meths/acetone and a toothbrush, and then give it a compressed air clean and bog it up with silicone, sealing that mitred corner as best I could, inside and out - remember that condensation will drip down and be sucked in on the inside as well.

One window was so bad that the framing had to be replaced, and several of them needed the sill to be patched or replaced. I spent a couple of months of evenings and weekends fixing it all. Swore I'd never buy another house with that sort of joinery again...

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