Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


rhy7s

625 posts

Ultimate Geek


#304409 1-May-2023 15:38
Send private message

We are in Northland at approximately 35° latitude with two of our buildings’ roofs suitable to install solar, both 30° pitch, one 12mx2.8m and the other 5.2mx1.8m, bearing about 32° and a few metres apart. We have a hill to the west and there will also be some morning and afternoon shading from the shelterbelts but the direct insolation hours are a fairly good match to our usage profile.

 

We’re with Frank Energy at the following rates (ex.GST):
Daily charge $1.55 
Day $0.32 / kWh
Night $0.21 / kWh
Buyback $0.11 / kWh

 

We have a 2 phase supply coming from a 15kVA roadside transformer that feeds two properties (one not ours). The building with a suitable roof for solar is 60m from the shed where the meters are installed on a 63A breaker. There is an unused 2 pair Cat3 cable between the buildings in case that could be used for signalling of some kind? (Presuming a controller and potentially a battery would need to be close to the panels to minimise losses but not sure how to activate a grid protect relay when the meters aren’t co-located).

 

Power outages here are often a multi day affair (Gabrielle was 9 days). We can normally get by as the hot water cylinders are usable for 3 or four days, we have gravity headers, and most of the family don’t eat animal products, so the refrigeration/freezing situation is manageable. It would be nice to keep the fridges and freezers going though, and to pump to the header tanks. A battery may therefore be a better option than having money tied up in a generator. We could probably get by with a system that just had a critical load output during the day but the pumps and some freezers are much too far to run an extension to.

 

I had made contact with a few solar installers. A fair few don’t service this area, some sent through their generic packages but didn’t really engage. One of them did a site visit but it did seem more like a sales pitch and they were a bit light when it came to the technicalities. Another was quite engaged but didn’t end up having an installer who would come out this way. Both of those outfits were a bit disparaging of the other’s solutions, neither fond of the other’s panels. One of them offering a Huawei lithium battery (touting the dominant position of Huawei, modernity and usable capacity), the other a lead battery (touting the recyclability and ½ price buyback at end-of-life).

 

We wouldn’t be looking to run everything in an outage (just occasionally pumping, freezers, a few lights - WISP CPE and about 9 APs and bridges would be handy) but an idea of the maximum appliances used would be:

 

Fridge x7
Freezer x3
Large hot water cylinder x2
Small hot water cylinder x2
Header tank pump x2
Pressure pump x2 
Oil column heater x8
Convection heater x2
Dehumidifier x6
Washing machine x4
Dryer x2
Oven x1
Cooktop x3
Kettle x4
Toaster x4
Desktop PC x6
A smattering of phones and laptops plus other small appliances

 

No EV but it would be good to plan for that in future.

 

Our average spend per month over the last 12 months is $670

 

An idea of maximum recorded usage per hour over the last month is below:

 

12:00AM    2.71
01:00AM    2.71
02:00AM    3.31
03:00AM    3.31
04:00AM    2.24
05:00AM    2.24
06:00AM    4.84
07:00AM    4.84
08:00AM    6.42
09:00AM    6.42
10:00AM    6.86
11:00AM    6.86
12:00PM    5.22
01:00PM    5.22
02:00PM    4.99
03:00PM    4.99
04:00PM    4.97
05:00PM    4.97
06:00PM    8
07:00PM    8
08:00PM    8.36
09:00PM    8.36
10:00PM    5.5
11:00PM    5.5
    
Daily Max kWH    126.84

 

And here is the cumulative hourly usage over the last month to get an idea of the daily pattern (there’s generally going to be at least 7 people home during the day).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, thanks for reading all this. I’m just wondering if you have any advice for products that would best suit our scenario? Or installers or consultants that you would recommend in Northland who you would recommend?

 

Thanks

 

 


Create new topic
wellygary
8333 posts

Uber Geek


  #3070089 1-May-2023 16:25
Send private message

"an idea of the maximum appliances used would be:"

 

Your list is a Huge amount of resistive load,  and will likely need a highly spec'd system , 

 

I would look at putting together a "bare minimum"  list and spec around that. 

 

Also if all these appliances are regularly connected, in the case of an outage and a switchover you run the risk of heavily depleting you storage until you turn them off...

 

Also what's your budget like 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




  #3070102 1-May-2023 16:54
Send private message

all i can say is good luck, its going to cost you a lot. your base load is about the max output of some single inverter systems out there. and you would need absolute tonne of batteries to make it throug ha night

 

 

 

You need to sit down and work out exactly what you absolutely need running, maybe have that on one system and have the other for all those nice to have loads. but even then you are goign to need to limit what you have connected to the solar system.

 

you don't need 4 hot water cylinders running in a power outage, likewise a dehumidifier, all the washing machines, dryers etc. 


rhy7s

625 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #3070116 1-May-2023 17:30
Send private message

I wouldn't be looking at covering the max load, it's just to give an idea of everything that's hanging off our meter that could be a potential draw and what output from the panels would be a good target bearing that in mind. 

 

The primary reason we're looking would be to reduce the monthly bill but also interested in battery options as our buildings are spread out over a large area so a central generator and jury-rigging leads isn't an option. So, it's a lot of lugging around, multiple generators or wiring up a solution that might not make a lot of sense when it's only used for outages. That might be an option that still makes sense though, I'd welcome any suggestions on that front as well.

 

In an outage situation, running the fridges and freezers plus pumping water every few days would be good, running one of the hot water cylinders would be nice to have, as would running the WISP CPE and WiFi. We've borrowed a generator to run the pumps and freezers before but it's a bit of a palaver.

 

Not wanting to spend more than makes sense in terms of payback periods within the expected lifetime at our level of usage.




eonsim
398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  #3070207 1-May-2023 23:59
Send private message

Your roof is probably going to be your limiting factor. An average size for a panel is something like 1.7x1m at which size you will get around 17 on your roof for a 7kW system. That will produce about 9,000kWh a year in northland, given your usage you'll probably use all of that with out exporting much so your pay back is likely to be rather short around 8 years without a battery. With the massive amount of gear you have I think you would be assuming to set up a critical loads panel that pretty much just covers one hour water cylinder. Some of the fridges and freezers and a couple of stickers for charging devices and running the internet and network. You would also want a battery set up to sorry that critical loads panel so it keeps working overnight. And a system to control the hot water so it doesn't heat off the battery.

 

 

 

A crude estimate suggests a 7kW system might save you 2000 a year. You can run your real numbers here to get a better estimate. https://genless.govt.nz/for-everyone/at-home/explore-solar-energy/solar-power-calculator/


eonsim
398 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  #3070235 2-May-2023 08:30
Send private message

Actually looking at your monthly usage and averaging down to a per day use, a 7kW system without a battery will likely export a reasonable bit of power (especially in summer), Genless is estimating may 1,000kWh of the 9,000kWh generated. It's still estimating somewhere around $2k per annum savings so the panels will pay for themselves fairly quickly. Note if you have enough land you could install a ground mount system, a tad more expensive probably but you would be able to install substantially more panels.

 

You would probably want a battery, though and a critical loads panel which will increase the price quite substantially. With regards to battery type I'd recommend Lithium (LFP ideally) as unlike Lead you can discharge those down by 80-90% without damaging the battery. Lead tends to die if you discharge it down past 50% a couple of times. If you are having multiday power outages will likely happen with a couple of cloudy days. LFP in particular could well survive 3000-6000 cycles (with 70-80% charge remaining) and would be more likely to survive being drained with outages.

 

 

 

What you really need to to at this point is determine what your critical loads are, what's the bare minimum you want to have working regardless, 1x Hotwater, 1 fridge, and all or half the freezers, internet and estimate the amount of power they need to run constantly for a day. Once you've got that number you can work out do you want 1 night, 1 full day/night, 2 days etc of battery backup. Then workout how much solar you would need to keep the stuff running during the day and charge the battery. You probably don't want hotwater on the true critical loads circuit that can draw power from the battery, rather you want it set up to use excess power from the solar system when it's generating. That can probably be done using a solar diverter connected to a solar circuit but not the circuit with the battery for the real critical loads.


dacraka
766 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified
Trusted

  #3070236 2-May-2023 08:40
Send private message

Clyde Howard (Phone 021 969 714) lives in Northland. Great solar installer!


rhy7s

625 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #3070398 2-May-2023 12:03
Send private message

Thanks for those tips on technologies, Genless and load planning. Plus the installer recommendation.


Create new topic





News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.