Philip's Ultra Efficient LED bulbs ("Dubai lamp" style)

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Philip's Ultra Efficient LED bulbs ("Dubai lamp" style) - New Product For NZ

Scott3

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#304605 20-May-2023 00:03

Dubai Lamp for reference (200, 400 & 600 lumen respectively, so 200 Lumen per watt):

The lamps you're not allowed to have. Exploring the Dubai lamps - YouTube

https://www.mea.lighting.philips.com/consumer/dubai-lamp

Ultra efficient light spotted at New World Vic Park (Auckland), all work out to 210 Lumens per watt:

https://www.lighting.philips.co.nz/consumer/ultra-efficient

For comparison a New world "Value" 806Lumens, 8.5 Watt bulb runs at $4.99. And works out to 94 Lumen per watt.

And because I can't help myself, the difference in running costs between the 4W and 8.5W bulb on 18c/kWh power is $0.00081/hour, so the payback on the $20 extra purchase price is 24,691 hours (2.81 years). Under half the 50,000 hour advertised lifetime of the ultra efficient light.

So quite a logical purchase for always-on applications at least.

Basic principal behind this is if you drive LED with less power, they are more efficient and last longer, but you need more / bigger LED's to make up for the reduced light output, so the light will cost more to build.

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#3078014 20-May-2023 10:32

LEDs claim these huge lifetimes, but my experience is they last about three years at my place in Wellington. They start flickering or fail completely. CF were more reliable.

Nate001

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#3078015 20-May-2023 10:36

Honestly at $25 a bulb I’d be investing in proper LED lights. Who are they targeting with products like this?

gzt

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#3078016 20-May-2023 10:51

Nate001: Honestly at $25 a bulb I’d be investing in proper LED lights. Who are they targeting with products like this?

spotted at New World Vic Park

Only available in two target regions to start with. Grey Lynn and Dubai.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3078018 20-May-2023 10:55

2.81 years is assuming 24/7 use, which is rather unusual. The main benefit of these is surely the longer lifespan, at least that's what was partly claimed with the Dubai ones. They're meant to be built more reliably and redundantly, part of which is driving the LEDs at much lower current and temperature. The added efficiency was a side effect, not the target.

gzt

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#3078019 20-May-2023 10:57

timmmay: LEDs claim these huge lifetimes, but my experience is they last about three years at my place in Wellington. They start flickering or fail completely. CF were more reliable.

I have approx 20 LedVance. Two failures inside three years. Two year guarantee. I consider this better than CFL. The failures are just as annoying.

tim0001

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#3078023 20-May-2023 11:28

Many of you will have probably have seen this, but here's what Big Clive has to say :

https://youtu.be/nMc6mjE9Y1s

I'm planning on getting one for a high use area.

timmmay

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#3078031 20-May-2023 12:50

gzt:
I have approx 20 LedVance. Two failures inside three years. Two year guarantee. I consider this better than CFL. The failures are just as annoying.

I started recording LED failures after the first couple failed.

I installed six Philips A60 LED bulbs into my dining room in 2018, 800 lumen. Every single one of them has failed. Two lasted two years, one lasted three years, three of them lasted four years. Another similar bulb in the kitchen lasted five years. Those lights probably get 6 hours use a day in winter, but not much use in summer. Some of them may have gotten close to their expected lifespans, but some fall well short.

I put two Panasonic LED bulbs in a bedroom in 2017. One lasted five years, the other is still going after six years.

A year is 8760 hours, and the standard Philips LEDs specs say they should last 12,000 hours, I assume that's runtime. They should last 50,000 switch cycles. The Philips website says "Average life (at 2.7 hrs/day)
12 year(s)". Many fall well short of what's claimed, which I guess is why they have a two year warranty - most do last at least two years. Given that lifetime claim is on the Philips website that could open up claims for warranty replacement for bulbs that aren't used a lot.

I've started trying GE bulbs, but only recently, so I don't have any failure data yet.

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gzt

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#3078041 20-May-2023 13:53

Many fall well short of what's claimed

Good point. Phillips is covered by the "average life" stat unless the actual data is misrepresented. Although, an average is not a meaningful claim at all for this product and could itself be seen as misleading.

The only useful thing to know - if someone buys one or a houselot how many are likely to fail before reaching the average? That cannot be calculated from the average.

To make it meaningful they have to add a graph and MBTF and things like that to the packaging. Phillips is big enough and usually has a lot of product data. They may even have a datasheet somewhere already.

Rikkitic

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#3078047 20-May-2023 14:20

I bought a large number on Aliexpress a few years ago and got what I paid for. Several failed immediately, some after a month or so, most of the rest within a year or two. Lesson learned.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

yitz

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#3078056 20-May-2023 15:13

Scott3: And because I can't help myself, the difference in running costs between the 4W and 8.5W bulb on 18c/kWh power is $0.00081/hour, so the payback on the $20 extra purchase price is 24,691 hours (2.81 years). Under half the 50,000 hour advertised lifetime of the ultra efficient light.

You reckon the government will be subsidising these also?

“We will reduce the upfront costs of LED light bulbs and enable the purchase and installation of around five million LED bulbs over four years. This will include adding LEDs as an additional product through Warmer Kiwi Homes, and also a subsidy scheme for mass market uptake of LEDs. Switching to energy efficient LEDs can save a household over $100 per year, and it reduces peak electricity demand. - https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/reducing-power-bills-100000-more-insulation-and-heating-retrofits

richms

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#3078082 20-May-2023 16:11

If you look at what return you would get on the extra $20 on those lamps vs the savings of them, its not worth it for normal usage of a lamp.

Also, the long life only matters if you are still in the same place to use the lamp for the whole life and you wont do a renovation or something in the 20+ years it works out to be with a normal usage pattern.

It really seems to come down to the same issue that those stupid solar tube skylights come into - the capital cost of something to save power never really covers the extreme low cost of the power that the cheap thing it replaces would use.

Buy the 100 luman per what cheapies, and put the extra $20 into a nice bottle of booze and I think its still a better deal.

Richard rich.ms

cddt

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#3078083 20-May-2023 16:20

timmmay: LEDs claim these huge lifetimes, but my experience is they last about three years at my place in Wellington. They start flickering or fail completely. CF were more reliable.

That's odd. We put LEDs in our old place in November 2016 and by the time we moved out in March 2023 we hadn't needed to replace a single one.

richms

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#3078084 20-May-2023 16:26

Also buy one and see if you like it first if you get these. There is a green tint to the light that I found horrible, Doesnt come up on camera - looks white there but I dont know what the CRI is but it was one of the worst LEDs I have had in quite some time. Only got it because it was the only 4000k bayonet on the shelf at bunnings. Should have gone next door to mitre10 where they have heaps of them available.

Richard rich.ms