House wall questions

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › House wall questions

cunningdavid

76 posts

Master Geek

#310444 19-Oct-2023 17:30

We're looking at houses in Auckland to buy and wonder if anyone has any thoughts on the following external claddings we've seen:

Hardieboard
Cedar
Lockwood (pine maybe?)

We'll have a building inspection done of course, but I do wonder how effective they are given that they can't take the cladding off to see what's happening behind it. Any thoughts on the merits (or lack) of the above?

Bonus question - does anyone know if replacing a consented carport with a proper enclosed room would increase the coverage of the property (which is restricted by the district plan)? I'm aware it would need building consent.

Thanks in advance.

1 | 2

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3150230 19-Oct-2023 17:52

what you need to look at is if its rain screened or not. older houses have direct fix cladding that works on the nonsense idea that it keeps the water out. newer ones have rainscreen which allows leakage to drain out before it gets into the wall.

cedar and lockwoods is all about the look. color of the cedar or the all wood nature of lockwoods. also older lockwoods have no wall insulation, newer ones have some poly in them.

cunningdavid

76 posts

Master Geek

#3150231 19-Oct-2023 18:04

Thank you, so would another way of saying that be that there should be a cavity in the wall?

PolicyGuy

1726 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3150234 19-Oct-2023 18:16

Older Lockwoods have solid pine walls & roofs about 75mm thick.
The outside walls are clad with an aluminium skin, usually anodised or powder-coated (not sure which) white. Ones built after about 1980 will have Pink Batts (R)(TM) between the solid cathedral roof timber and the roofing iron.

Unless they have been obviously badly mistreated / neglected, IMO they are unlikely to be in poor structural condition. I'm not a builder or building inspector, but I have lived in several and bought two Lockwood homes and haven't regretted it.

For their time, they were at the better-quality end of the market.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3150236 19-Oct-2023 18:21

cunningdavid: Thank you, so would another way of saying that be that there should be a cavity in the wall?

yes, but not IN the wall (as thats where insulation goes) but on the outside. so its double layered, siding outside, house wrap on the inside with a gap between. usually at the bottom is a bug screen.

however i did forget about vertical pattern which is allowed to be direct fixed.

if your concerned about weather tightness you need to factor in things like overhangs and avoid internal guttering. imho things like internal guttering are a bigger issue that siding.

i have seen a place that had a deck on the upper floor that drained back into a drain that went down through the wall. ever time it rained, water came out around the doors/windows. the house still sold for a stupid amount of money.

Goosey

2829 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#3150343 20-Oct-2023 06:47

Cedar needs TLC

suggest you understand what that means

i used to live in a Cedar. You could see previous owner did a patch job with the odd re stain. At times you might need to replace some boards and that’s due to the lack of care.

as for the carport, easy enough to say you can enclose it. But the orignal construction maybe not going to support it (foundation etc).

could be cheaper to just throw up a new kit set garage ?

Handsomedan

7281 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#3150426 20-Oct-2023 11:30

We've lived in a Cedar home for a couple of decades.

It was once brown and needed staining every couple of years (we are in a very sunny northwest facing site). It was easy enough to do, as stain is easy to apply to rough-sawn cedar, but you use a lot as it's quickly soaked up by the dry wood and it takes a while - you also end up feeling like every time it needs doing, it was only just finished...it's a fair bit of maintenance.

We had it painted and it's only now showing signs of requiring a redo - that's about 10 years. It's a lot better.

We also had internal gutters, which leaked and thankfully the cedar cladding allowed for the walls to dry fairly quickly and we didn't develop mould. After a significant flood we are now having a lot of work done, but it would have been far worse had we not had a fairly easy-drying house.

We paid around $1000 for a, intrusive inspection and report on the moisture and were surprised at the level of dampness in parts of our house - money well worth spending for us. With that said, we haven't had any framing or cladding replaced for any reason - it's stayed well-intact and has never shown any signs of rot.

I think one of the big things to look for in any house is whether or not it has external gutters - internal gutters WILL leak. It's just a matter of how often and how much. Doesn't matter what kind of cladding you have.

Handsome Dan Has Spoken.
Handsome Dan needs to stop adding three dots to every sentence...

Handsome Dan does not currently have a side hustle as the mascot for Yale

*Gladly accepting donations...

nickb800

2715 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3150488 20-Oct-2023 13:40

Cavity construction (rainscreen) is a fairly new thing in New Zealand, coming about post-2004 (putting aside brick veneer cavities). This means that most houses won't have a cladding cavity.

Direct fix is absolutely fine if used appropriately i.e. with eaves, building paper/wrap, well detailed and maintained junctions. The building code recognizes this and allows for direct fix in low risk situations.

Apart from being aware of slightly higher maintenance associated with cedar, I don't think you can achieve much in the house hunting process by filtering out properties based on cladding type, if you don't have a good understanding of building materials and construction. Learning about leaky homes - the construction materials and eras could be useful though. Otherwise, just leave it to the builders report. They will pick up on things like signs of moisture, flashings, maintenance, poor installation, etc. They can relate what they are seeing to what they would expect in a house of that era, and translate that to what it means to help you make an overall decision if the house is right for you. Over time you'll pick up on this and it can build your understanding in future house hunts.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

cunningdavid

76 posts

Master Geek

#3150495 20-Oct-2023 13:57

Thank you Nick. I am aware of the leaky homes episode and have a super basic knowledge of the construction materials involved, but really have to rely on the builders report. Sounds like you're saying that if the builders report doesn't spot any issues then most likely it is fine.

nickb800

2715 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3150499 20-Oct-2023 14:29

cunningdavid:

Thank you Nick. I am aware of the leaky homes episode and have a super basic knowledge of the construction materials involved, but really have to rely on the builders report. Sounds like you're saying that if the builders report doesn't spot any issues then most likely it is fine.

Builder's reports aren't perfect - like anything, the quality and usefulness can vary from firm to firm. But I guess without sounding condescending, it seems like you're at the start of the learning curve around construction, so it'd be pretty unlikely that you'd pick up an issue that the builders report wouldn't. By applying an arbitrary filter like 'only cavity construction' you could significantly reduce your options, without significantly changing your risk exposure.

On the carport site coverage question - could be worth a call to the duty planner at council, as they should be able to answer in relation to the specific context that you're interested in

cunningdavid

76 posts

Master Geek

#3150511 20-Oct-2023 15:09

Thank you Nick, I think you're right.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3150515 20-Oct-2023 15:42

nickb800:

Cavity construction (rainscreen) is a fairly new thing in New Zealand, coming about post-2004 (putting aside brick veneer cavities). This means that most houses won't have a cladding cavity.

Direct fix is absolutely fine if used appropriately i.e. with eaves, building paper/wrap, well detailed and maintained junctions. The building code recognizes this and allows for direct fix in low risk situations.

afaik modern direct fixed is single story(?) and vertical cladding. typically that gives drainage but not always. i realy dislike some of the profiles some use. it was also done since 70's with vertical pattern fibrelite.

horizontal direct fix is poor because there is no drainage. however that wasn't a problem until the 80's when we started putting insulation into walls and removed the drying space.

the simple problem is cladding doesn't keep all water out and it depends a lot on the house/situation if the drying can overcome the wetting.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3150519 20-Oct-2023 15:48

cunningdavid:

Thank you Nick. I am aware of the leaky homes episode and have a super basic knowledge of the construction materials involved, but really have to rely on the builders report. Sounds like you're saying that if the builders report doesn't spot any issues then most likely it is fine.

building reports can be completely bogus. there is no requirement for them to be done by qualified builders. many are done by failed builders. i've seen some that are pretty much fake. some are done to help the home owner get approval. some will only show the obvious stuff. they are not like builders reports you see on social media that cover everything. many are simply a quick look than an indepth probe.

just remember the entire real estate and building industry goal is to sell you stuff to make money, not look after you.

cunningdavid

76 posts

Master Geek

#3150522 20-Oct-2023 15:51

I'm sure you're right. Still, I expect most of them know more than I do. Going with an inspector who is recommended to you based on personal experience seems like the best option.

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#3150524 20-Oct-2023 16:00

cunningdavid:

I'm sure you're right. Still, I expect most of them know more than I do. Going with an inspector who is recommended to you based on personal experience seems like the best option.

be a little careful with recommendations. the "give the customer what they want" rule applies, many will do the report so the customer can buy (eg don't find faults so the bank etc approves it). as the customer is happy the customer gives the firm a good recommendation, even tho the inspection didn't do the job they where meant to.

cunningdavid

76 posts

Master Geek

#3150526 20-Oct-2023 16:04

I guess my question then is what better way is there for a non-builder type like me to tell who is a good building inspector?

1 | 2