Fill my water tank from lake?

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Hwale

69 posts

Master Geek

#311322 6-Jan-2024 00:38

I live rurally and have a water tank supplying the house. It's been very dry recently so my water is running out. I also live next to a very very large lake. There's almost no water in my tank, but an awful lot of water in the lake. What if the water in the lake could be in my tank instead?

There's a local guy who supplies water to people like me who use too much water; he takes it from the lake, treats it with chlorine dioxide and pumps it into household tanks. I've thought about this over a few whiskies tonight and I reckon I can do this indefinitely for the same price or less than a single fill up at his prices, which are actually very reasonable.

Anyway I have access to 1000l drums which I can put on a trailer. The vague idea is that I'd park up next to the water, pump water from the lake into the tanks(s) through a filter, drive to the house and pump the water into the tank, then treat it with the dioxide. Several trips will be required.

Seems pretty straightforward but I'm sure there are a million things I haven't thought of so if anyone has any wisdom they'd like to impart then I'm all ears.

If you have recommendations for the right kind of pump (guess it'd have to be 12v to run off the car battery), the right kind of filter, anything that might be a massive headache that I haven't thought of etc. then please do share your knowledge.

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#3178213 6-Jan-2024 01:21

Resource consent or some other permission will be required from the local authority responsible for the water source.

The taking of water from streams, lakes or rivers for industry or commercial purposes in most cases requires a resource consent from your regional council. Completing a water permit application to take surface water is a first step to obtaining a resource consent.

https://niwa.co.nz/our-science/freshwater/tools/kaitiaki_tools/land-use/water-take%2C-dam%2C-divert2/water-take

Hwale

69 posts

Master Geek

#3178215 6-Jan-2024 01:27

This is for private purposes so I think I can happily skirt those regulations.

Handle9

11386 posts

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#3178221 6-Jan-2024 05:37

Hwale:

This is for private purposes so I think I can happily skirt those regulations.

You mean knowingly break the law for personal gain.

Call it what it is.

edge

423 posts

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#3178223 6-Jan-2024 06:52

The rules vary between councils - mostly it is OK to take water for personal use (commercial take differs), but you need to check local rules. A good place to start would be https://www.groundrules.mpi.govt.nz/activity/152-taking-and-using-water?sortBy=relevance

I've spent my whole life drinking rain/bore/spring water - you just need to know the characteristics of the source and treat accordingly. We are currently on spring water from the farm and use UV treatment.

[edit] not sure, though, if rules differ between taking water from your own property versus take from a public water body. I can imagine that, regardless of the rules, taking water from a public place might engender some complaints :-)

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into."
— most commonly attributed to Jonathan Swift, author/theologian

eracode

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#3178225 6-Jan-2024 07:08

Handle9:

Hwale:

This is for private purposes so I think I can happily skirt those regulations.

You mean knowingly break the law for personal gain.

Call it what it is.

I agree with your line of thought but how is OP breaking the law? No consent appears to be needed for water taken for private use.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Handle9

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#3178228 6-Jan-2024 07:23

eracode:

Handle9:

You mean knowingly break the law for personal gain.

Call it what it is.

I agree with your line of thought but how is OP breaking the law? No consent appears to be needed for water taken for private use.

If a consent is not required it's not "skirting regulations," it's a permitted activity.

Skirting regulations implies knowingly ignoring the law.

Hwale

69 posts

Master Geek

#3178247 6-Jan-2024 09:21

'Skirt' as in go around or avoid having to deal with.

You are permitted under the Resource Management Act to take water from surface or groundwater without a resource consent for:

your own reasonable domestic needs,
the reasonable drinking needs of your livestock.
firefighting

Regardless, there are 3.8x10^13 litres in the lake and I only need 10,000 of them. I don't care much for silly laws restricting the procurement of the necessities of life, even if they did apply

So now we have the boring part out of the way, anyone got any usable practical advice?

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wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#3178249 6-Jan-2024 09:31

Where are you based?...

A fair number of councils have local restrictions on water takes from surface water ( Lakes, rivers)...

Also using 1000l tanks ( I'm guessing they're IBC totes) is great for small quantities, but if you're filling a 20 or 30K litre tank, then the time and effort starts to outweight getting a water carrier to turn up with a tanker load... but each to their own....

traderstu

332 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3178250 6-Jan-2024 09:33

It has always been the case that you are quite ok to take surface water or groundwater for domestic use, stockwater or firefighting purposes (a lake is surface water). This is covered under the RMA.

If you have a filter system for your house with a UV lamp, I wouldn't bother with chlorine. Just use common sense with where you take your water: away from houses with septic tanks, no runoff from paddocks, etc

Consider a 2" self primer centrifugal pump. This will fill your tank in a couple of minutes. A 12v pump will take hours.

pih

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#3178252 6-Jan-2024 09:39

While I applaud the creative solution I can't help but think that you'll end up spending more money and time than you think.

Back of the envelope calculations:

A 12V pump will be excruciatingly slow and may not have the grunt needed to filter the water as well. You will literally be pumping all day to fill your tanks, your car will need to be very close to the pump, and you'll need to keep the car running (adding to the cost). Investing in a petrol powered pump would be far quicker, more efficient and more cost effective. Allow ~$400 for a pump and ~$150 for hoses, intake filter and fittings.
You'll need to invest in some high throughput filters and filter housings if you want to filter water as you pump it from the lake. Maybe $500.
let's say the lake is 1km away, total fuel cost of transporting 12kL of water (same as a typical tanker) might be $15-20.
Fuel for pumping (assuming you're using a petrol pump at the lake): another $10-15.
Replacement filters ~$50
Chlorine tablets: $40

So up front cost might be $1000, cost per tanker-sized load might be $120. Time cost: could be as much as an hour per trailer load, so 6 hours if you can take two 1kL tanks on your trailer.

Break even might be 3-5 tanker loads.

Frankly, I'd rather just pay someone and spend my Saturday doing something else. The only way that I can think it would be more cost and time effective is if you were close enough that you could run a hose from the lake directly to your tank.

eracode

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#3178255 6-Jan-2024 09:54

Hwale:

Regardless, there are 3.8x10^13 litres in the lake and I only need 10,000 of them. I don't care much for silly laws restricting the procurement of the necessities of life, even if they did apply

So now we have the boring part out of the way, anyone got any usable practical advice?

So, you would break the 'silly' law if private taking wasn't permitted?

Entitled much? Do you pick flowers from public gardens too?

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

RunningMan

8953 posts

Uber Geek

#3178258 6-Jan-2024 10:02

Hwale: '[snip] I don't care much for silly laws restricting the procurement of the necessities of life, even if they did apply

Regardless of what your opinion is of a particular piece of legislation, the rules here are that

Posts will be removed, and the user may be banned (either temporarily or permanently) if:

the post encourages or asks for ways of breaking the law;

So, establishing whether it is lawful to undertake what you are are trying to do in the area that you live is quite important before seeking advice on how to do it here. As noted by posters above, the rules are going to be different across the country, so that needs to be worked out first.

traderstu

332 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3178267 6-Jan-2024 10:44

Yes, would be curious who your regional council is. The couple that I have googled acknowledge that taking water for domestic purposes is expressly allowed under the RMA (law), but they do impose conditions (rules) around compliance (eg over-allocation, protection of wetlands, etc)

Also, what did your load of water cost. My neighbour had a tankload delivered recently at a cost of $500 + GST. We are just rural, practically on the town boundary.

Important to remember that we rural folks like to be independant. Running out of water is no fun and always happens at the most inoppertune time.

Hwale

69 posts

Master Geek

#3178272 6-Jan-2024 11:12

pih:
While I applaud the creative solution I can't help but think that you'll end up spending more money and time than you think.

Back of the envelope calculations:

A 12V pump will be excruciatingly slow and may not have the grunt needed to filter the water as well. You will literally be pumping all day to fill your tanks, your car will need to be very close to the pump, and you'll need to keep the car running (adding to the cost). Investing in a petrol powered pump would be far quicker, more efficient and more cost effective. Allow ~$400 for a pump and ~$150 for hoses, intake filter and fittings.

You'll need to invest in some high throughput filters and filter housings if you want to filter water as you pump it from the lake. Maybe $500.

let's say the lake is 1km away, total fuel cost of transporting 12kL of water (same as a typical tanker) might be $15-20.

Fuel for pumping (assuming you're using a petrol pump at the lake): another $10-15.

Replacement filters ~$50

Chlorine tablets: $40

So up front cost might be $1000, cost per tanker-sized load might be $120. Time cost: could be as much as an hour per trailer load, so 6 hours if you can take two 1kL tanks on your trailer.

Break even might be 3-5 tanker loads.

Frankly, I'd rather just pay someone and spend my Saturday doing something else. The only way that I can think it would be more cost and time effective is if you were close enough that you could run a hose from the lake directly to your tank.

All good points. I do live close enough to the lake that fuel costs are negligible, so up front costs for decent gear even at the higher end are probably acceptable, especially if dry weather like this continues which seems likely given the broader weather patterns for the foreseeable future.
Once I have the equipment and experience, a full tank of water will cost very little. Seems plausible at least.

tim0001

262 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3178273 6-Jan-2024 11:17

We just boil the drinking water. I don’t find it too much of a hassle. Just boil a jug at night and put it in the fridge in the morning. (We’d would have got a UV filter years ago, but the ongoing threat of the DHB/govt forcing us to pay for a centralised community treatment plant has deterred us.)

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