Save Some Power Dosh - What the Power Companies and PowerSwitch May Not Have Told you!

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Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#314994 6-Jun-2024 11:15

For me the cheapest power with Flick is now off peak power in the off peak plan.

Its cheaper than all the controlled power options which is drawn during the same off peak periods (CN19 overlapping peak times excepted).

For controlled power options I agree with them they turn off the controlled load (Hot Water, some heating) during times demand exceeds generation supply capacity - and now I pay more for the "privilege". Dang!

So it will be cheaper for me to organise my own automated switching of hot water on and off with the feed taken from the 24 hour metered register. Then I can control the timing parameters and gain further cost reductions not otherwise offered to me.

Why am I sharing this information? I expect others will be interested how to reduce their power costs as well.

I also think the market pricing is set wrong, and this information may be a market pressure for change. If the information is widely available and the market does not change, well, people can comment how much moral obligation we have to buffer the grid generation capacity and to pay extra for that!

Or readers can implement their own automated switching and once the cost of the conversion is paid savings should follow. Check it out for yourself and let us know if this analysis can be improved.

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1238 posts

Uber Geek

#3245256 6-Jun-2024 13:54

I always found powerswitch numbers to be wrong.
I've only ever used them as a list of power companies to get numbers to plug into my spreadsheet.

i have also discovered that many people have different use cases with power and what suits one does don't suit another, even in the same area.
So you really do need to do your own reseach.

For example, with my electric cars I find the contact's free power weekends save me 1/3rd on my power bill, but many others find this does not work for them.

But there is definitely saving to be had if you shop around, and free power is not always the best deal as the Kwh rates are higher to offset.

muppet

2568 posts

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#3245258 6-Jun-2024 14:01

My Flick controlled rate is the same cheap rate no matter peak/offpeak time. Which is why I'm with Flick and no one else. There's no advantage to me turning off my hot water when it's always cheap. And yea, I do all the house pre-heating/dishwasher/laundry etc during the offpeak times to take advantage of that cheap offpeak uncontrolled rate too.

It's cheaper than if I get the staff discount from the power company I work for.

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3245261 6-Jun-2024 14:07

KrazyKid:

I always found powerswitch numbers to be wrong.
I've only ever used them as a list of power companies to get numbers to plug into my spreadsheet.

i have also discovered that many people have different use cases with power and what suits one does don't suit another, even in the same area.
So you really do need to do your own reseach.

Snap! Agree entirely. Using historical half hour HHR data downloaded from retailers is in my experience very useful and the most accurate basis to analyse the potential retailer candidates identified from own observations and as flagged by Powerswitch (which has also not confirmed my analysis either).

If its not clear the OP was intended to and particularly applies to people who use network ripple controlled load control devices but there might be something in it for others too.

People using CN8, NO8, CN10, NB10, CN19, and IN19 components or ripple control devices might like to consider the OP.

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3245263 6-Jun-2024 14:10

muppet:

My Flick controlled rate is the same cheap rate no matter peak/offpeak time. Which is why I'm with Flick and no one else...... And yea, I do all the house pre-heating/dishwasher/laundry etc during the offpeak times to take advantage of that cheap offpeak uncontrolled rate too.

What is your controlled rate, and what is your off peak uncontrolled rate?

cshwone

1070 posts

Uber Geek

#3245264 6-Jun-2024 14:11

Hinko:

People using CN8, NO8, CN10, NB10, CN19, and IN19 components or ripple control devices might like to consider the OP.

Could you explain that in English please.

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3245266 6-Jun-2024 14:14

muppet:

There's no advantage to me turning off my hot water when it's always cheap.

Are you using Hot water all night?

May I suggest so long as your thermostat temperature is set to a good highish temp, there is no need to keep maintaining the hot water temp from say 11pm to say 5 am - I say this is a waste of your dosh (assuming the preceding answer was no). Don't believe me? Do the analysis and let us know.

muppet

2568 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3245268 6-Jun-2024 14:21

Hinko:

Are you using Hot water all night?

May I suggest so long as your thermostat temperature is set to a good highish temp, there is no need to keep maintaining the hot water temp from say 11pm to say 5 am - I say this is a waste of your dosh (assuming the preceding answer was no). Don't believe me? Do the analysis and let us know.

You're right I'm sure I could save a little money turning it off, but it would be negligible. The cylinder uses hardly any power overnight looking at my usage stats, it's pretty new. The cost of putting in a timer would be a net loss for ~20 years. I'd save much more money getting my pool pump/pool heater hooked up to controlled (but again the cost of getting this done would mean the time to net positive savings would be a long time)

My Rates (updated to include GST, why is this even an option it's so stupid):

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Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3245269 6-Jun-2024 14:22

cshwone:

Hinko:

People using CN8, NO8, CN10, NB10, CN19, and IN19 components or ripple control devices might like to consider the OP.

Could you explain that in English please.

LOL, sorry. They are some of the official descriptor terms entered into the electricity register for each ICP as applicable.

Perhaps what you are seeking is things ending in 8 are people using load controlled power from 11 pm to 7 am, the descriptors in 10 are typically the prior 8 plus a "boost" connection from 1 pm to 3 pm, all off peak periods.

The 19 is typically explained as 19 hours of power guaranteed a day, but what it really means (and not what you are told) is its discounted power generally connected for 24 hours, except when the lines company or grid need to dump load for load control.

There are the simpler versions, there are some variations which are not so clear. Even of you don't use a load control device the OP may still apply - and give the consumer some benefit.

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3245278 6-Jun-2024 14:33

muppet:

My Rates (updated to include GST, why is this even an option it's so stupid):

Wow, thanks, interesting! Fwiw mine are:

I'm in the Wellington Electricity region, guessing you are somewhere else?

muppet

2568 posts

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#3245279 6-Jun-2024 14:36

Hawke's Bay

ANglEAUT

2320 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#3245285 6-Jun-2024 15:34

Hinko: ... guessing you are somewhere else?

Auckland

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3245334 6-Jun-2024 17:53

muppet:

My Rates (updated to include GST, ...):

I am guessing you are running 19 hour setup? If not, have you checked your controlled 1/2 hour downloaded data? Were there any days where the ripple control failed to (forgot to) turn off? If so I've found that data interesting to consider as its an unintended test of the alternative scenario with some value in comparison with normal load control switching. But if IN/CN19 it may have been on most of the time?

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3245354 6-Jun-2024 18:07

ANglEAUT:

Hinko: ... guessing you are somewhere else?

Auckland

Thank you for the charges you are billed. Interesting. Looks like you are running a single meter register, with your hot water still controlled but under the single meter. (Or gas?!) Measuring any changes from the data is harder when there is only one meter. Depending on the size of your hot water and the amount you use the OP might still apply to you, just harder to measure and show.

Clearly there is quite some regional variation.

SomeoneSomewhere

1804 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#3245381 6-Jun-2024 19:03

The CN19 type rates usually used for hot water only turn your cylinder off for a few hours each day. It varies by lines company but typically you have at least 16 hours guaranteed. In almost all cases, this guarantees that you won't run out of hot water because of the ripple/timer - if you run out, you probably would have anyway.

Running your HWC at night only is cheaper and probably always has been, however most cylinders may not be sized for this duty. The CN19 rate will still be available through the day and earlier in the evening, so is charged higher than the night rate by power companies, who have to pay for the energy. It may or may not be charged at a higher rate by the lines company.

If you want to put a timer on your cylinder, fine, but with a 16-hour unheated gap, you may want a 'boost' button so that you can choose to pay extra if you have e.g. an unusual number of showers in a day.

If you want to use a special controlled, night-only or night-with-afternoon-boost rate, you cannot have a boost button. The load must be supplied exclusively and only through the relay and the dedicated meter.

Most properties actually have the HWC on a ripple switch, but not separately metered. Instead, the whole house gets a ~5-10% discount on power, charged/recorded as an 'all inclusive' rate. This also cannot have any kind of 'bypass' or 'override' button that bypasses the ripple relay. You can however still install a time switch, so that the HWC runs only when both the time switch and ripple relay are happy, and have an override on the time switch.

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3245394 6-Jun-2024 20:04

SomeoneSomewhere:

The CN19 type rates usually used for hot water only turn your cylinder off for a few hours each day.

Yeah its what they say. BUT do you have meter data that confirms that?

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