Watching Spark Sport (including launch and pricing)

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Master Geek

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#2292315 8-Aug-2019 14:14

@ruff and @sbiddle thanks for the clarification.

@ruff The site here says that their will be 3UHD from each venue, don't know how reliable the source is. Might be getting a bit off topic for this thread though.

ruff

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Master Geek

#2292319 8-Aug-2019 14:18

Hey, no problem.

Just going from what I was told by a Japanese TV executive, when I was in Japan having a meeting with him last week.

(Who knows, he could be wrong...)

Apsattv

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#2292638 8-Aug-2019 23:46

Not sure if getting offtopic?

beIN SPORTS secures RWC rights

From https://advanced-television.com/2019/08/08/bein-sports-secures-rwc-rights/

"beIN Asia Pacific – part of global sports and entertainment group beIN MEDIA GROUP – has secured exclusive rights to the Rugby World Cup 2019 in Cambodia, Indonesia, Hong Kong, Laos, Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand, Timor-Leste and Singapore.

All 48 tournament matches in the Japan-based tournament will be available on a new dedicated channel, beIN SPORTS RUGBY and beIN’s live-streaming app, beIN SPORTS CONNECT. beIN SPORTS RUGBY will be available on pay-TV platforms from September 6th to November 10th. Leading up to the tournament, fans will be treated to round-the-clock rugby programmes featuring greatest moments, best tries, near hits and misses from the past Rugby World Cups. With kick-off times optimised for Asian fans, this is anticipated to be the most-watched Rugby World Cup in the region" ...

Batman

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#2292727 9-Aug-2019 06:28

ruff:

A lot of misinformation and confusion in this thread!

This below from sbiddle is correct.

Incorrect. All broadcasts are at 1080i/25

1080i/50 is the field rate in a 1080i PAL broadcast.

1080i/25 is the frame rate in a PAL 1080i interlaced broadcast.

While some broadcasters may say 1080i/50, the source material is at 25FPS with, 50 fields per second as it's interlaced. EBU say that this is written 1080i/25 and that the frame rate and not the field rate is used when describing the broadcast however some people may chose not to do this.

Content at 1080 with a true 50 FPS rate would be 1080p/50 as it would not be interlaced.

Sports in PAL countries is shot at 1080 50i 25fps (2 fields to every frame)

What Spark Sport has just done is drop one of the fields of each frame.

Which is why it looks terrible.

And, I think they have lowered the bitrate as well.

Sports from NTSC based countries (such as Japan for the RWC) is shot at 29.976fps 1080 which is basically 60i for the fields.

All the RWC matches in Japan are being captured in 1080i. Any 4k output is being up-resed by the broadcaster.

Except. For one stadium. (Can't remember which one sorry). That has 12 or 14 4K cameras assigned to it. (Basically as a trial run for the Olympics).

(The Progressive images that you see on movies and most dramatic TV shoes are captured at 25P in Pal countries with a 180 degree shutter (1/50th sec exposure time). This is the correct amount of motion blur for features etc. Most of the sports is also captured with a 1/50th or 1/60th of a second exposure time as well.... it's the fields that make it look correct).

There is also the audio side of things (not my area...) but, what are they outputting? Just a basic 2 channel? Or a 5:1?

Either way, it's pretty terrible content delivery, when we go to the trouble of capturing at such a high standard.

definitely confusion around terminology alright!

but i thought we had the same idea - there are 50 interlaced frames a second from 25 actual shots

are you saying Spark Sport went from 50 interlaced to 25 half shots.

so essentially we have some archaic devices that can't deinterlace? that is pre 2010 technology.

Batman

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#2292730 9-Aug-2019 06:51

anyway decided to google and the first thing that comes up is this article https://www.svgeurope.org/blog/headlines/journey-to-japan-how-rugby-world-cup-host-broadcast-plans-are-falling-into-place/

Turning to incoming and outgoing feeds from the IBC, Shield reveals that the contribution network is based upon dual 10Gbit paths provided by NTT carrying 3 x UHD, 22 x HD and 6 x return HD circuits from every venue. One exception will be the Tokyo venue which will use a dual 40Gbit dedicated path.

The UHD standard is 4k SDR 2160p/59.94, while HD standards are 1080p/59.94 and 1080i/59.94.

....

In addition, Broadcast Sports International – a part of NEP – will be providing the first 1080p corner flag cameras

....

He adds that NHK will provide 8k coverage to the domestic market only, under the IGBS umbrella. “NHK will be using nine cameras together with some host 4k cameras upconverted.”

So even random blogs use the incorrect terminology when it comes to interlaced feeds thus confusing the general public (about the correct terminology).

ANd it appears it is all over the place with every stadium having completely different technologies.

Batman

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#2292732 9-Aug-2019 06:52

I am hoping Spark Sport can give us unadulterated feeds ... am I seeing that NZ having one of the best internet coverage in the world is being brought to its knees by some ancient tablets?!

And please keep working on the LG app!

sbiddle

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#2292749 9-Aug-2019 08:08

Batman:

definitely confusion around terminology alright!

but i thought we had the same idea - there are 50 interlaced frames a second from 25 actual shots

are you saying Spark Sport went from 50 interlaced to 25 half shots.

so essentially we have some archaic devices that can't deinterlace? that is pre 2010 technology.

There are still only 25 FPS in a PAL image, not 50. The interlacing creates 50 fields.

I don't think I can explain things any simpler as it is a hard thing to understand - it's probably worth reading something such as the Wikipedia entry about interlaced video which is good.

The quality of deinterlacing hardware still varies greatly. When TVNZ moved from 720p to 1080i on Freeview there was a lot of debate as many people saw it as a step backwards.

There is also no logical reason these days why you would stream something over the internet in an interlaced format when 100% of viewing (or very close to it) will be on displays that support progressive scan.

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UKe17

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#2292754 9-Aug-2019 08:25

Batman:

I am hoping Spark Sport can give us unadulterated feeds ... am I seeing that NZ having one of the best internet coverage in the world is being brought to its knees by some ancient tablets?!

And please keep working on the LG app!

Yes please. Just purchased an LG, based on the promise of Spark Sport. Eagerly awaiting - is there any update on when??

Batman

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#2292778 9-Aug-2019 09:16

sbiddle:

Batman:

definitely confusion around terminology alright!

but i thought we had the same idea - there are 50 interlaced frames a second from 25 actual shots

are you saying Spark Sport went from 50 interlaced to 25 half shots.

so essentially we have some archaic devices that can't deinterlace? that is pre 2010 technology.

There are still only 25 FPS in a PAL image, not 50. The interlacing creates 50 fields.

I don't think I can explain things any simpler as it is a hard thing to understand - it's probably worth reading something such as the Wikipedia entry about interlaced video which is good.

The quality of deinterlacing hardware still varies greatly. When TVNZ moved from 720p to 1080i on Freeview there was a lot of debate as many people saw it as a step backwards.

There is also no logical reason these days why you would stream something over the internet in an interlaced format when 100% of viewing (or very close to it) will be on displays that support progressive scan.

i know, i've been doing this stuff since the days of windows 7 HTPC, and finding the cheapest GPU that can deinterlace 1080i in 2007, and then choosing from the 6 different deinterlacing algorithms available at the time

it's just that even the mainstream blogs use terms that are different from the correct terms, but i'm sure the understanding is the same

nzkc

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#2292782 9-Aug-2019 09:27

I hope Spark Sport are considering the option to provide a "high bandwidth"/"high refresh rate" feed (whatever you want to call it) alongside a "mainstream" feed. So you'd get the ability to choose which works best for you and your hardware. I'd see the high refresh rate feed being something you'd have to go in and explicitly select.

It may not be the most elegant solution to the problem though. And the counter argument is that it would cause confusion - I get that. I think it would have to be something you have to go "hunting" for so that the tech savvy amongst us can implement it where as the masses would default to the current streams.

eracode

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#2292784 9-Aug-2019 09:31

UKe17:
Batman:

I am hoping Spark Sport can give us unadulterated feeds ... am I seeing that NZ having one of the best internet coverage in the world is being brought to its knees by some ancient tablets?!

And please keep working on the LG app!

Yes please. Just purchased an LG, based on the promise of Spark Sport. Eagerly awaiting - is there any update on when??

I’m in exactly the same situation - one LG bought nearly a year ago and another bought last week. Very keen to see the promised SS RWC LG TV app.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

tdgeek

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#2292796 9-Aug-2019 09:57

nzkc:

I hope Spark Sport are considering the option to provide a "high bandwidth"/"high refresh rate" feed (whatever you want to call it) alongside a "mainstream" feed. So you'd get the ability to choose which works best for you and your hardware. I'd see the high refresh rate feed being something you'd have to go in and explicitly select.

It may not be the most elegant solution to the problem though. And the counter argument is that it would cause confusion - I get that. I think it would have to be something you have to go "hunting" for so that the tech savvy amongst us can implement it where as the masses would default to the current streams.

How do other services such as Netflix do this? Do they detect the platform and stream the compatible version for that device/platform?

Batman

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#2292804 9-Aug-2019 10:31

eracode:
UKe17:

Batman:

I am hoping Spark Sport can give us unadulterated feeds ... am I seeing that NZ having one of the best internet coverage in the world is being brought to its knees by some ancient tablets?!

And please keep working on the LG app!

Yes please. Just purchased an LG, based on the promise of Spark Sport. Eagerly awaiting - is there any update on when??

I’m in exactly the same situation - one LG bought nearly a year ago and another bought last week. Very keen to see the promised SS RWC LG TV app.

Good! Coz I'm in the same boat.

Maybe one could ask the official channels and get an official response?

Don't feel like resurrecting my HTPC

nzkc

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#2292818 9-Aug-2019 11:06

tdgeek:

nzkc:

I hope Spark Sport are considering the option to provide a "high bandwidth"/"high refresh rate" feed (whatever you want to call it) alongside a "mainstream" feed. So you'd get the ability to choose which works best for you and your hardware. I'd see the high refresh rate feed being something you'd have to go in and explicitly select.

It may not be the most elegant solution to the problem though. And the counter argument is that it would cause confusion - I get that. I think it would have to be something you have to go "hunting" for so that the tech savvy amongst us can implement it where as the masses would default to the current streams.

How do other services such as Netflix do this? Do they detect the platform and stream the compatible version for that device/platform?

Hmm.... rereading my post I wasnt 100% clear. What I meant was as a short term fix until they can programmatically determine which feed works best for you. i.e.: Asking questions like "What can we do today, right now, that would improve the experience for all sets of users?"

As for how Netflix do it: I don't know. Never worked there :) There's a few options I can think of how you could approach this. They may be using different encoding/decoding algorithms that have wider support. They may have a big database of devices that the app can reference to determine the best type of stream. Potentially they have libraries in their app that determine the features a given device can provide and work off that. You might think Spark have this, or have developed this too, but I wouldn't be so certain of this. Netflix been in this game a lot longer so will have a much bigger code base to refer too, much more experience of these problems and already have attempted a few solutions. Spark have more likely brought in an off the shelf product/library and simply not had enough time to expand or develop it further.

tdgeek

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#2292820 9-Aug-2019 11:11

nzkc:

tdgeek:

nzkc:

I hope Spark Sport are considering the option to provide a "high bandwidth"/"high refresh rate" feed (whatever you want to call it) alongside a "mainstream" feed. So you'd get the ability to choose which works best for you and your hardware. I'd see the high refresh rate feed being something you'd have to go in and explicitly select.

It may not be the most elegant solution to the problem though. And the counter argument is that it would cause confusion - I get that. I think it would have to be something you have to go "hunting" for so that the tech savvy amongst us can implement it where as the masses would default to the current streams.

How do other services such as Netflix do this? Do they detect the platform and stream the compatible version for that device/platform?

Hmm.... rereading my post I wasnt 100% clear. What I meant was as a short term fix until they can programmatically determine which feed works best for you. i.e.: Asking questions like "What can we do today, right now, that would improve the experience for all sets of users?"

As for how Netflix do it: I don't know. Never worked there :) There's a few options I can think of how you could approach this. They may be using different encoding/decoding algorithms that have wider support. They may have a big database of devices that the app can reference to determine the best type of stream. Potentially they have libraries in their app that determine the features a given device can provide and work off that. You might think Spark have this, or have developed this too, but I wouldn't be so certain of this. Netflix been in this game a lot longer so will have a much bigger code base to refer too, much more experience of these problems and already have attempted a few solutions. Spark have more likely brought in an off the shelf product/library and simply not had enough time to expand or develop it further.

Sorry, I wasnt querying your post, but it was related. I assume its possibly normal for providers to offer x number of streams to cater for various devices. Rather than one covers everything stream, I;m sure someone here may know

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