Global mode over ? Lets see.....

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2886 posts

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#1293163 28-Apr-2015 21:48

Sadly, the ACCC has a lot more expertise and willingness to go in to bat for consumers than our Commerce Commission, which seems to be a very tame and timid beast by comparison.

DonGould

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#1293368 29-Apr-2015 10:07

JimmyH: Sadly, the ACCC has a lot more expertise and willingness to go in to bat for consumers than our Commerce Commission, which seems to be a very tame and timid beast by comparison.

Do a quick compare of national broadband quality between .nz and .au and then let's have a conversation.

ComCom has teeth... I just think they're using the back ones.

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raytaylor

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#1301656 10-May-2015 23:57

I just had a thought...
Does slingshot have the right to outright throttle lightbox and sky to a crawl?

I was reading in the latest net neutrality rules from the FCC that american ISP's are now unable to do that where as some major ISPs over there were outright doing it - in addition to letting peering ports fill up.

If slingshot is now the number 3 isp in the country, what weight does a threat of throttle have against lightbox?
How would that affect lightbox as a business if suddenly 30+% of the potential customer base could no longer reliably use your service?

I am sure loosing speedy lightbox performance is not really of much concern to most slingshot customers, and i dont think slingshot would loose many customers specifically because they couldnt use lightbox.

Ray Taylor

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NonprayingMantis

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#1301691 11-May-2015 08:33

raytaylor: I just had a thought...
Does slingshot have the right to outright throttle lightbox and sky to a crawl?

they have the ability, and there wound't be anything illegal about it AFAIK. (we don't have net neutrality laws here yet)

they don't have the 'right' though.

I was reading in the latest net neutrality rules from the FCC that american ISP's are now unable to do that where as some major ISPs over there were outright doing it - in addition to letting peering ports fill up.

If slingshot is now the number 3 isp in the country, what weight does a threat of throttle have against lightbox?

probably not all that much. Most lightbox customers are probably on Spark.

How would that affect lightbox as a business if suddenly 30+% of the potential customer base could no longer reliably use your service?

I am sure loosing speedy lightbox performance is not really of much concern to most slingshot customers, and i dont think slingshot would loose many customers specifically because they couldnt use lightbox.

Callplus is considerably less than 30% of the residential market.

well then if it doesn't matter to slingshot because the numbers are so small, then it probably doesn't matter to Lightbox either.

Going by the USA experience, people tend to prefer their content provider to their ISP. So throttling Lightbox would just cause the people who use Lightbox to move to an ISP that doesn't do it.

and then of course there is all the negative PR you would get from such a gigantic breach of net neutrality and would give Lightbox even more ammunition against them. Callplus look like the good guys right now. They don't want to do stuff to screw that up.

They can't even blame cost for it, since Lightbox is hosted in NZ and so is one of the cheaper content services to serve up to their customers.

mdf

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#1301750 11-May-2015 09:41

What NonprayingMantis said, plus it probably would be illegal in New Zealand. Section 36 of the Commerce Act prohibits taking advantage of substantial market power to muscle out your competition in any market. This obviously isn't specific to net neutrality, but one suspects the Commerce Commission would take a particularly dim view of any efforts in that regard.

And before you ask, there is an exception for IP. You're perfectly entitled to take advantage of substantial market power to muscle out your competition, if you're doing it pursuant to an IP right.

raytaylor

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#1301758 11-May-2015 09:55

mdf: What NonprayingMantis said, plus it probably would be illegal in New Zealand. Section 36 of the Commerce Act prohibits taking advantage of substantial market power to muscle out your competition in any market. This obviously isn't specific to net neutrality, but one suspects the Commerce Commission would take a particularly dim view of any efforts in that regard.

And before you ask, there is an exception for IP. You're perfectly entitled to take advantage of substantial market power to muscle out your competition, if you're doing it pursuant to an IP right.

I accept its probably a stupid idea... though you have given me another question.
Is an ISP that doesnt offer a streaming media service in competition with a streaming media service itself.
So is there actually competition?
Netflix has no relationship with slingshot, and lightbox is not in competition with slingshot.

In the USA, it is speculated that the throttling with verizon mostly occurred because they offered a streaming platform of their own in competition to netflix.

Ray Taylor

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DonGould

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#1302095 11-May-2015 16:44

raytaylor: I just had a thought...
Does slingshot have the right to outright throttle lightbox and sky to a crawl?

I was discussing this with someone else today.

A smarter option is to promote good services.

Have you considered just purchasing everyone of your customers an AppleTV box?

Do a deal? "Sign a 24 month contract, for $5 more a month, with us and we'll give you a free AppleTV box", then email them about netflix and set up a local cache?

Rather than throw stones at crap, make a promotion, win business?

D

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richms

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#1302115 11-May-2015 17:31

I'd rather see a rough than an apple product.

But then people will call complaining that the wifi doesn't reach it or its not playing etc and want the isp to support it etc.

Richard rich.ms

raytaylor

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#1302199 11-May-2015 19:07

DonGould:

Have you considered just purchasing everyone of your customers an AppleTV box?

Didnt the apple TV boxes have a problem where there was no internal storage?
They would do a 700mb firmware update each time they were switched on?
Have seen that at a couple of customer sites now.

Ray Taylor

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mdf

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#1302684 12-May-2015 12:46

raytaylor:
mdf: What NonprayingMantis said, plus it probably would be illegal in New Zealand. Section 36 of the Commerce Act prohibits taking advantage of substantial market power to muscle out your competition in any market. This obviously isn't specific to net neutrality, but one suspects the Commerce Commission would take a particularly dim view of any efforts in that regard.

And before you ask, there is an exception for IP. You're perfectly entitled to take advantage of substantial market power to muscle out your competition, if you're doing it pursuant to an IP right.

I accept its probably a stupid idea... though you have given me another question.
Is an ISP that doesnt offer a streaming media service in competition with a streaming media service itself.
So is there actually competition?
Netflix has no relationship with slingshot, and lightbox is not in competition with slingshot.

In the USA, it is speculated that the throttling with verizon mostly occurred because they offered a streaming platform of their own in competition to netflix.

Not my area of expertise unf (I've said that a few times in this thread - showing my enthusiastic amateur status).

It doesn't really matter what market you have dominance in, or whether there is "direct" competition, just that you're using it to affect that or any other market.

Flipping it around as an example, Lightbox clearly doesn't have any kind of dominance in the SVOD market. But Spark could possibly (probably? I don't know the stats) be said to have market dominance in the retail ISP market. It could use that market dominance to favour it's own/Lightbox's SVOD product by throttling all other SVOD services. So it's using it's ISP dominance to affect the SVOD market.

Same applies to Callplus. If Callplus did have market dominance (and I'm not saying it does), throttling Lightbox essentially in retaliation (since it wouldn't necessarily be helping it's own service) would probably still be abuse of market power. If it didn't have market dominance it would be fine, but obviously nothing is going to change if your actions amount to a relative flea bite.

DonGould

3892 posts

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#1302772 12-May-2015 13:40

raytaylor:
Didnt the apple TV boxes have a problem where there was no internal storage?
They would do a 700mb firmware update each time they were switched on?
Have seen that at a couple of customer sites now.

I haven't tested that, but I have repowered one a number of times and not noticed this. It would take more than a few minutes to pull 700mb on my network so I think I would have noticed. But this is an aside really.

I'm going to look at a Google Chrome next. They're even cheaper.

The point here though is that we won't block emerging technology just because the kids in the sand pit want to throw spades at each other. We simply ignore bad behavior and find a way to promote a positive direction.

My positive direction is to embrace IPTV that's provided by folk who aren't focused on picking on my friends but want to give customers a great experience!

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rugrat

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#1309376 21-May-2015 15:55

In today's press it has that a hearing of the legality of global mode unlikely to be held before December.

I've got the physical press, it's page A11

shk292

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#1309379 21-May-2015 15:59

rugrat: In today's press it has that a hearing of the legality of global mode unlikely to be held before December.

I've got the physical press, it's page A11

I wonder how many of the NZ streaming services will have folded by then? There might be a reduced pool of litigants

sultanoswing

814 posts

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#1309440 21-May-2015 18:05

shk292:
rugrat: In today's press it has that a hearing of the legality of global mode unlikely to be held before December.

I've got the physical press, it's page A11

I wonder how many of the NZ streaming services will have folded by then? There might be a reduced pool of litigants

Sadly, I doubt Spark, Sky or TVNZ will fold by then. Mediaworks on the other hand...

cyberhub

224 posts

Master Geek

#1309474 21-May-2015 18:59

Yep this is silly - I feel like this is steam train companies that are suing automobile manufacturers. It really does not make sense, instead of innovating they sue.

Really they need to adapt to the download world.

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