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734 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 172034 9-May-2015 09:21
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Good ol'consumer NZ. Openly available (non-paywall) article on bypassing Geoblocks as to do so is "legal in NZ*.

Just in case anyone on here is still unsure how to do this, it's a pretty basic primer to get you started: https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/how-to-get-around-geoblocks?utm_content=how-to-get-around-geoblocks

Enjoy (unless you're Spark/Sky/Mediaworks/TVNZ - in which case, suck it).

 

* but may, they do point out, be against T&C's, which as we all know is *not* equivalent to being either a) illegal or b) pirating copyright.

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734 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1306362 16-May-2015 17:24
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Wow. Consumer NZ are really pushing this. Here's an article on VPNs. Of course there are various inaccuracies in the attempt to dumb it down, but I'm still impressed to see this becoming mainstream. Or worried. It will undoubtedly begin to provoke an allergic reaction from ignorant lawmakers, in response to old-media pressure, a la what recently happened in Australia.

https://www.consumer.org.nz/products/vpns/overview

EDIT: What's next - is Consumer gonna put people onto I2P ?!

EDIT 2: A source I trust in these matters recommends mullvad or iPredator.se as preferred VPNs if security and privacy are your top priorities (which they most definitely should be!). Neither of these VPNs were tested by Consumer.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1306366 16-May-2015 17:38
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pretty silly thing to do IMHO.

It's not definitely legal, as we have seen from the legal challenge.  They should be more honest and say it is yet to be tested in court and that it is potentially illegal.


Even if it is legal, I still think it's pretty shaky for them to be openly advocating breaking terms of an agreement - which is exactly what you are doing if you access just about any geoblocked content you can think of.


Instead of saying:

"It is important to note that doing this is currently legal in New Zealand but doing so may breach certain websites’ terms and conditions."

They really should be saying

"It is important to note that doing this is untested in courts in New Zealand.  It may be legal, it may be illegal, we just don't know.  Regardless, using global mode absolutely breaches these websites’ terms and conditions."


suggestions for next articles for consumer.org:  

How to get a private tracker for your torrents.  
The three things you need to get into someone else's email account.
How to hotwire a car
How to dispose of a dead body so nobody will ever find it

tongue-out

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1306369 16-May-2015 17:45
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There is no legal challange at the moment for personal use of a VPN, what the challange is for is a product that is being sold by a NZ company, a commercial use of a VPN.

Comes back to how once it wasn't legal to sell things you parallel imported commercially, but personal imports were fine. Then parallel importation for resale became legal and stores popped up to do it and the local distributors had their arse kicked in many ways from their dated inefficient practices. Some disappeared, but all up things got better overall for everyone.

Now this just needs to happen for entertainment content and productivity software and we will be better off again.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 1306371 16-May-2015 17:47
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NonprayingMantis:

suggestions for next articles for consumer.org:  

How to get a private tracker for your torrents.  
The three things you need to get into someone else's email account.
How to hotwire a car
How to dispose of a dead body so nobody will ever find it

tongue-out


Trolling much?




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  Reply # 1306372 16-May-2015 17:49
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jarledb:
Trolling much?


I suspect he has an interest in a rapidly dying media company that benefits from the FUD around legality.

Consumer say its currently legal in NZ, which is correct. Its not been found illegal yet has it? Hopefully it wont and this comes back to bite the old content monopoly that they get found the other way and the bypass of georestriction becomes even more promoted.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 1306385 16-May-2015 18:58
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jarledb:
NonprayingMantis:

suggestions for next articles for consumer.org:  

How to get a private tracker for your torrents.  
The three things you need to get into someone else's email account.
How to hotwire a car
How to dispose of a dead body so nobody will ever find it

tongue-out


Trolling much?


yeah the last part was a joke (hence the tongue sticking out smiley)  but it is quite surprising to see consumer.org so openly advocating something which is such a legal grey area right now.



734 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1306398 16-May-2015 19:25
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NonprayingMantis: ...it is quite surprising to see consumer.org so openly advocating something which is such a legal grey area right now.


Surprising only if one is King Canute tongue-out

....and let us not forget the principle of legal until proven illegal (thank the GCSB for the most recent example - or was that "ignorance *is* an excuse when you've broken the law"?)

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  Reply # 1306406 16-May-2015 19:39
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Sometimes I swear it's like most people don't realise that removing revenue streams from local companies will result in less investment.

I don't like geoblocks any more than the next person that likes movies / music / TV etc, but you know what I'd like less? A drop in investment by local media companies and local (NZ) RSPs.

Things will change, and I think they'll change rather quickly (on a scale digestable by multinational conglomerates and media organisations), but if they change overnight like seemingly everyone wants, there will be catastrophic implications and guess what... Consumers will not come out of that better than they went in.

Cheers - N

ps. Absolutely my personal opinion!



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1306410 16-May-2015 19:53
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Talkiet: Sometimes I swear it's like most people don't realise that removing revenue streams from local companies will result in less investment.

I don't like geoblocks any more than the next person that likes movies / music / TV etc, but you know what I'd like less? A drop in investment by local media companies and local (NZ) RSPs.

Things will change, and I think they'll change rather quickly (on a scale digestable by multinational conglomerates and media organisations), but if they change overnight like seemingly everyone wants, there will be catastrophic implications and guess what... Consumers will not come out of that better than they went in.

Cheers - N

ps. Absolutely my personal opinion!


Sorry - when was the last time Sky invested in local content (other than Sport, which doesn't really need it, and is rather ephemeral)? As for MediaWorks and its Govt. bailouts and TVNZ's extinct charter and dodo TVNZ7 (a Govt. policy decision which shows just how much NZ values our content creators since we voted for the bums) it's difficult to engender much sympathy for this argument. Did I miss anyone out? Oh yeah, Spark - which exists for shareholders, is 143% overseas-owned and was so despised in its former incarnation as Telecom that it had to do a corporate rebrand. Cry me a river.

I'd have no problem paying more money through taxation for local content and public broadcasting - much as we do now through NZ On Air. I'd far rather this than subsidising it indirectly through media "middle men" who create nothing and only punch the ticket on the way past using outdated monopolies. Bollocks to that.

And even better - NZ content could be distributed far and wide through non-geoblocked interwebs gaining a global audience. "NZflix" anyone?

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  Reply # 1306413 16-May-2015 20:05
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Fair enough that everyone has their own opinions. So many people have such levels of hate for the companies you mention (and others) that I am certain many of those people would be happy to forgo investment in, and coverage of NZ sports, and would rather that all their content came out of the US instead.

That's not right, or wrong - it's just different. Personally I like that I can still see some NZ sport and NZ programs (Almighty Johnsons type things) instead of Series 83 of the Batchelor and the cheapest to make 'reality TV shows' available.

It's people that espouse opinions like yours I would never expect to convince that anything less than global rights and immediate broadcast everywhere (for the same tiny price all over the world) is unacceptable.

Elements of that are happening now, More will happen in relatively short time I believe. But I don't want them to happen so fast that business models for important businesses fail. You do. That's your opinion. I disagree.

Cheers - N

[Not interested in further debate on this really, I know you won't change your mind, and I won't change mine - although I suspect you don't actually have a good handle on where my opinions are)



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1306418 16-May-2015 20:37
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Talkiet: Fair enough that everyone has their own opinions. So many people have such levels of hate for the companies you mention (and others) that I am certain many of those people would be happy to forgo investment in, and coverage of NZ sports, and would rather that all their content came out of the US instead.

That's not right, or wrong - it's just different. Personally I like that I can still see some NZ sport and NZ programs (Almighty Johnsons type things) instead of Series 83 of the Batchelor and the cheapest to make 'reality TV shows' available.

It's people that espouse opinions like yours I would never expect to convince that anything less than global rights and immediate broadcast everywhere (for the same tiny price all over the world) is unacceptable.

Elements of that are happening now, More will happen in relatively short time I believe. But I don't want them to happen so fast that business models for important businesses fail. You do. That's your opinion. I disagree.

Cheers - N

[Not interested in further debate on this really, I know you won't change your mind, and I won't change mine - although I suspect you don't actually have a good handle on where my opinions are)


Yeah, cheers to you too, N... just want to check what your opinion is on paying for content creation more directly i.e. via NZ On Air & taxes or a broadcasting levy, rather than through unnecessary/outdated proxies relying on restricted distribution models?

By the way, I used to work for the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation - man, we were *really* loathed.



734 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1306483 17-May-2015 09:16
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...and what happened to all that local content paid for by previous taxpayers and broadcasting fee payers? Oh yeah, that's right - sold off by TVNZ to Sky for 30 pieces of silver...and now we won't even be seeing that as Sky ditches Heartland. What a sick joke given that these two are now bleating to the Government.

Of course in any decent world Heartland would transfer to FTA, but I won't self-asphyxiate waiting for that to occur.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11447413

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  Reply # 1306485 17-May-2015 09:20
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They should stick it all into ondemand.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 1306836 17-May-2015 20:31
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Talkiet:

That's not right, or wrong - it's just different. Personally I like that I can still see some NZ sport and NZ programs (Almighty Johnsons type things) instead of Series 83 of the Batchelor and the cheapest to make 'reality TV shows' available.

It's people that espouse opinions like yours I would never expect to convince that anything less than global rights and immediate broadcast everywhere (for the same tiny price all over the world) is unacceptable.



It's an interesting debate.

However, I would make two points in reply:

1.  It's not just "people that espouse opinions like yours" that think geoblocking is anti-consumer. Credible independent official bodies that have undertaken detailed analysis think it too. For example the Australian ACCC, and the European Union have both weighed in heavily against geographic market segmentation, because of what it does to consumers.

2.  Your assumption that if we hand local media companies monopolistic power by shutting out competitive elements they will magically pour the profits into "quality" products (in quotes as it's a pretty subjective thing at the best of times), instead of continuing to produce the most profitable item (after considering ratings appeal and production cost) and giving the extra profit to shareholders is, to say the least, shaky.

On balance, I'm perfectly prepared to pay for content and indeed do so. But I think that putting up what are essentially import barriers to prevent parallel importing is not a policy option that's in the best interests of NZ consumers. It has nothing remotely to do with "levels of hate" for particular companies in my book, it's just that I believe that open trade and choice is what results in the best deal for consumers. I would have the same view if Whitcoulls tried to block shipments from Amazon.

I doubt the legal challenge will succeed, and it looks like pure bullying and intimidation to me. However, in the event that it does, I think that Parliament should immediately amend the law to make it unambiguous that bypassing geoblocks is legal. The "licensed" distributors will hate it - but so do the booksellers, music sellers, clothing sellers and all the other businesses that have had their model of cozy little markets and high prices in the absence of competition disrupted by globalisation. Consumers on the other hand will benefit hugely.

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  Reply # 1306847 17-May-2015 20:43
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NonprayingMantis:

suggestions for next articles for consumer.org:  

How to get a private tracker for your torrents.  
The three things you need to get into someone else's email account.
How to hotwire a car
How to dispose of a dead body so nobody will ever find it

tongue-out


I think you are confusing the issue (somewhat mischievously) by conflating two things that aren't similar, to set up a chain of logic that doesn't make sense, and drive people to an invalid conclusion. Paying for and parallel importing a digital product isn't remotely the same thing as disposing of a dead body.

For starters concealing a dead body is unambiguously a criminal act, repugnant to most people, with heavy criminal penalties. Parallel importing a digital product in contravention of the terms of service isn't remotely a criminal act. Even if the courts find it to be illegal, which I personally doubt they will, breach of terms of service in a contract is a civil act not a criminal one. It isn't copyright infringement, any remedy would be decided by the courts as a civil matter, and there are no criminal penalties attached.

Just out of interest, given your repeated posts alleging illegality/criminality on this - do you either have financial interests in, or are employed by, a NZ media company?

And it's also worth noting that, as long as you own it or have owner's permission, there's actually nothing wrong with hotwiring a car.

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