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gbotica

5 posts

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#315804 17-Aug-2024 15:53
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Hi there,

 

Not sure if this is the right place to post about this, but here we go...

 

I've used Tidal for years in NZ with no problems, and was always on the plan that capped quality at 16/44.1. I stream on a PC, Android and a Cambridge Audio streamer. All has worked flawlessly.

 

A couple of months, Tidal opened up the 'HiRes / Max' quality setting to all Tidal plans, so of course I've switched over.

 

When you select "Max" quality in Tidal, it just streams whatever the highest quality format they have available (anything above 16bit 44.1KHz - which is called "High" quality (same as CD)).

 

So, when on "Max", you might get 24/48KHz, 24/96KHz, 24/88.2KHz, 24/192KHz ... etc

 

I can stream all formats no problem -- except 24/192KHz. I can listen for hours and as soon as I get to a track that's 24/192KHz, I get constant audio buffering / pauses in the playback.

 

I have been in lengthy discussion with Tidal about it and have done all sorts of troubleshooting, but no luck. Tidal are helpful, but they're a bit evasive about what the actual problem might be. They've had me uninstall the Tidal app and go through all sorts of stuff that's made no difference. Because I have the same issue on 4 different devices, it's clearly not that kind of an issue. 

 

Also, it's not my internet connection, I get 900MBps downstream consistently. I can play a 24/96KHz stream, a 4K youtube video and browse the web while running speedtest.net -- all at the same time -- without any network issues, buffering or anything.

 

ONLY when Tidal tries to play a 24/192KHz track does the buffering start. By my calculations, serving a 24 bit 192Khz stream would require approx 10MBps (add some for overhead, say 12MBps). That's not even close to maxing out my internet connection.

 

It seems to me that perhaps little ol' NZ is just too far away from Tidal's servers, and they (the Tidal streaming servers) can't consistently serve the ~10MBps stream.

 

The extra annoyance is that there's no way to simply set Tidal to cap the playback quality at 24/96KHz. No such option exists, if it did, I could easily work around the issue by just listening to 24/96KHz, which would be fine.

 

I've asked Tidal several times where the servers are located, and whether they have a datacenter in NZ, but they never comment. My guess is it's in Australia with some local data cached with a CDN provider in NZ.

 

Are any other NZ Tidal users experiencing this problem?

 

Any input or comment appreciated.

 

Thanks for reading.


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cddt
1548 posts

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  #3272926 17-Aug-2024 16:01
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24 bit 192Khz stream would require approx 10MBps

 

That would be uncompressed. I imagine they have some compression in place. 

 

Not familiar with Tidal, first I've heard of it, but I would suggest trying a VPN to another location (US/Europe) and seeing if you can get a better experience. 





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askelon
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  #3272933 17-Aug-2024 16:23
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I also have issues with tidal buffering some tracks.  Never really bothered to look into it but it sounds the same as what your getting. Got any examples of 24/192 I can test?  24/96 is fine on mine. 


gbotica

5 posts

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  #3272945 17-Aug-2024 16:59
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cddt:

 

24 bit 192Khz stream would require approx 10MBps

 

That would be uncompressed. I imagine they have some compression in place. 

 

Not familiar with Tidal, first I've heard of it, but I would suggest trying a VPN to another location (US/Europe) and seeing if you can get a better experience. 

 

 

Thanks for the comment. I thought about trying a VPN, but didn't bother for 2 reasons.

 

1. the data is just going to be travelling further and through more network points (Tidal-> VPN -> NZ), so performance is likely to just be worse unless I am actually physically located remotely. I might be wrong about this though... I guess if Tidal can sustain 10MBps to the VPN and the VPN can then passthrough the data to NZ fast enough... maybe that would work. Seems unlikely a free VPN would support that kind of throughput.

 

2. I can't easily implement a VPN for my HiFi audio streamer (and I don't really want to put my entire network through a VPN), so it would be unlikely to fix that either.

 

 

 

I don't believe there is compression, perhaps some used during transmission, but I think it would need to be 1:1 because Tidal streams lossless FLAC audio format.




gbotica

5 posts

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  #3272948 17-Aug-2024 17:03
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askelon:

 

I also have issues with tidal buffering some tracks.  Never really bothered to look into it but it sounds the same as what your getting. Got any examples of 24/192 I can test?  24/96 is fine on mine. 

 

 

Tidal use this as a test. Each track steps up in sample rate, only the last track is 24/192. Can you play all but the last track without buffering?

 

https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/a7d48ebd-56b2-46da-99fd-70d5d3ade197

 

A full 24/192 album you can test is: https://tidal.com/browse/album/77614346?u


askelon
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  #3272949 17-Aug-2024 17:06
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I found a 24/192 playlist. I'll play it tomorrow and let you know how I get along


askelon
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  #3273235 18-Aug-2024 14:21
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Seems to be all working for me today. At least it was until it wasnt!! Lots of buffering on some songs with 24/192..  no buffering on general 24/96 stuff though..  1000/500 spark connection.. 


gbotica

5 posts

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  #3273369 19-Aug-2024 09:24
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askelon:

 

Seems to be all working for me today. At least it was until it wasnt!! Lots of buffering on some songs with 24/192..  no buffering on general 24/96 stuff though..  1000/500 spark connection.. 

 

 

Thanks for posting back. Good to know.


 
 
 

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Nazdravanix
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  #3309810 17-Nov-2024 08:37
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I've just struck this problem myself and am in the midst of going through Tidal support. If i try to play anything over the low quality 320kbps the app just stalls with a spinning wheel around the play symbol. I did discover however if I tunnel Tidal through my VPN the issue disappears. I've tried reinstalls, reboots, resets etc. I'm wondering id its a ISP routing issue and I'm trying to get a server IP I can trace route when I get time later today.

 

Doubly frustrating as until yesterday it worked fine.


askelon
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  #3309811 17-Nov-2024 08:40
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I found the desktop app just flat out stopped working yesterday (the forever circle of Doom) but the Web player worked fine. I haven't had tidal buffering lately though. 


Nazdravanix
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  #3309812 17-Nov-2024 08:46
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askelon:

 

I found the desktop app just flat out stopped working yesterday (the forever circle of Doom) but the Web player worked fine. I haven't had tidal buffering lately though. 

 

 

 

 

Yep that lines up, absolutely zero issues with web player or android app when using the same network. Desktop player still does what it feels like.


Behodar
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  #3309821 17-Nov-2024 09:27
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gbotica:

 

I don't believe there is compression, perhaps some used during transmission, but I think it would need to be 1:1 because Tidal streams lossless FLAC audio format.

 

 

I realise this is an old post, but FLAC is compression. I think it's around 40-50% most of the time, so given your earlier posts you'd only need 5-6 Mb/s bandwidth to stream FLAC at 24/192.


Martin_NZ
130 posts

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  #3309835 17-Nov-2024 11:45
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Nazdravanix:

 

askelon:

 

I found the desktop app just flat out stopped working yesterday (the forever circle of Doom) but the Web player worked fine. I haven't had tidal buffering lately though. 

 

 

 

 

Yep that lines up, absolutely zero issues with web player or android app when using the same network. Desktop player still does what it feels like.

 

 

 

 

I have the same issue. Yesterday multiple desktop app stopped working. One on Windows, one macos catalina and one macos sonoma. ALL the same symptom. Spinning circle of doom around play button. App reinstall did not help. Web player (on the same devices) and android both working fine.

 

 

 

It's not us it's them it seems.





M

Martin_NZ
130 posts

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  #3309841 17-Nov-2024 12:45
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Nazdravanix:

 

I've just struck this problem myself and am in the midst of going through Tidal support. If i try to play anything over the low quality 320kbps the app just stalls with a spinning wheel around the play symbol. I did discover however if I tunnel Tidal through my VPN the issue disappears. I've tried reinstalls, reboots, resets etc. I'm wondering id its a ISP routing issue and I'm trying to get a server IP I can trace route when I get time later today.

 

Doubly frustrating as until yesterday it worked fine.

 

 

 

 

Enable / Vocus / Slingshot for me. I wondered the same but still experience same issues if I hotspot to a mobile (spark and onenz) network. 





M

askelon
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  #3309842 17-Nov-2024 12:57
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Im with Spark. I can force it to low to get playback in the app. But it will just buffer forever on high/max. 


askelon
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  #3309860 17-Nov-2024 15:16
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Ive also noticed the web player doesnt play max, only high (max is greyed out).  And if I drop the quality on the Windows app to low it will play. 


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