2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2666847 2-Mar-2021 17:10

Fred99:
Handle9:

Who is the "affected community"?

We are. All of us.

The post doesn't appear to be saying that which is why I asked.

Jase2985

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#2666849 2-Mar-2021 17:15

Oblivian:

The hammer has fallen as it were.

Shame they don't actually seem to go chasing you if you don't pay up. Seems to be just a deterrent. (48/826 in Oct 2020 had paid)

Also badly timed for all the nurses and health workers from Asia/India recently on tv trying to get their partners and children in who were pre-changes so don't qualify for slots (although was 'being looked at')

should be a prepaid voucher system.

no pay no stay

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#2666851 2-Mar-2021 17:26

duckDecoy:
Where do you find out how many people have paid vs how many have been through MIQ ?

Media do information act requests

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300227028/invoices-worth-23m-sent-to-miq-guests

end of January, an MIQ spokesperson said 7273 invoices had been issued.

Nearly 2000 of them - more than a quarter - had been paid

JaseNZ

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#2666854 2-Mar-2021 17:30

Jase2985:

Oblivian:

The hammer has fallen as it were.

Shame they don't actually seem to go chasing you if you don't pay up. Seems to be just a deterrent. (48/826 in Oct 2020 had paid)

Also badly timed for all the nurses and health workers from Asia/India recently on tv trying to get their partners and children in who were pre-changes so don't qualify for slots (although was 'being looked at')

should be a prepaid voucher system.

no pay no stay

People that have not paid in full that are through should not be allowed to leave until it is settled as well.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

Fred99

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#2666903 2-Mar-2021 17:50

Handle9:
Fred99:

We are. All of us.

The post doesn't appear to be saying that which is why I asked.

I know. Half the posts here these days seem to be stating one or more of the following:

young people are all idiots
the MOH are all idiots
our politicians are all idiots
the education system is stuffed
people from lower decile groups are bad
passengers in MIQ are selfish

Yet here we are, living relatively freely and unscathed from a global pandemic that's wreaked havoc elsewhere. What will stuff it up - is giving airtime to the divisive, untrusting BS that seems to develop every.single.time there's a case of CT - something our leaders always said was inevitable, and something that they've always managed to contain / ring fence.

That hasn't happened because we were "lucky". We've been smart about it - with lapses most often only seen in hindsight. Those lapses got plenty of attention from experts.

GV27

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#2666905 2-Mar-2021 18:12

Fred99:

That hasn't happened because we were "lucky". We've been smart about it - with lapses most often only seen in hindsight. Those lapses got plenty of attention from experts.

There's smart and the question of could we be smart-er. I've seen claims that a lot of the recommendations from the Simpson/Roche report haven't been implemented (and nor has there been much chance for scrutiny cynically given it was held back until the Thursday before Xmas); we have done very well to date and I think there's a mix of unhelpful politically-opportune 'gotcha!' style commentary mixed with some valid questions about our latest response/the clarity of communications, etc when it comes to this outbreak.

When this is all said and done, I'd love to know what the effects of the 'casual plus' distinctions and tiers have been from a research point of view. That and the decision to move down to L1 from L2 are the only things recently I think that I've been left scratching my head over and would like to know more about in the fullness of time.

Fred99

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#2666914 2-Mar-2021 18:40

GV27:

When this is all said and done, I'd love to know what the effects of the 'casual plus' distinctions and tiers have been from a research point of view. That and the decision to move down to L1 from L2 are the only things recently I think that I've been left scratching my head over and would like to know more about in the fullness of time.

I'm guessing that the message has been received loud and clear about casual "plus" and other tweaks. There was discussion about increasing the number of alert levels, rejected because that may add confusion. The MoH knows what the issues are.

I also commented that the move down levels seemed unwise, but like almost everybody else, I did it in hindsight.

Nothing is as simple as many people expect or hope it should be. It's fair to question experts, and it's reasonable to expect a response to fair questions. The way things are heading, everything is at risk of falling apart, in my opinion.

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tdgeek

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#2666919 2-Mar-2021 18:56

sen8or:

They may not be facing criminal charges, but it'd be a pretty interesting day in court if say Kmart or KFC filed a civil complaint for damages. They may have cause under negligence and causality but I'd hazard a guess it still wouldn't fly (public interest / slippery slope) but just to see how far it actually went. I'd hazard a guess there would be a lot of small businesses that would relish the opportunity of recovering some of the losses caused by these idiots.

They say 40 million a day (I don't buy that) say at $20 a payday....

But the reality is, its quite possible that Level 3 was all on them. The R factor with all their contacts must be high

GV27

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#2666921 2-Mar-2021 18:59

Fred99:

I'm guessing that the message has been received loud and clear about casual "plus" and other tweaks. There was discussion about increasing the number of alert levels, rejected because that may add confusion. The MoH knows what the issues are.

The PM is going on TV and saying people were told one thing and the Covid19 response team is on Facebook saying some people were told something else and that they followed the rules. It has been an exceptionally well-run comms exercise until extremely recently and now it feels a bit wonky suddenly.

As for the 'hindsight' of moving down levels; Here's Dr Siouxsie Wiles at the time:

“I was a little surprised I must say, given that we had some new cases today, but I think it shows the Government really only wants to use moving up the alert levels when they really have to and for as short a period as possible," she said.

I find the idea that any discussion about moving down levels too early is now considered 'hindsight' is a bit weird given there was clearly some concern at the time.

tdgeek

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#2666924 2-Mar-2021 19:07

chatterbox:
tdgeek:

Just got a Stuff alert. Young people say Govt's Covid 19 message is too old too stale and way too long

There you have it, can't be bothered

Its old as its been a year

Its stale as its repeating the same message

Its long because its important

It seems this team of 5 million is failing, the great pity is most of us aren't, but we will all wear the results

Actually it’s a fair comment. When you need to read 20-30 tweets to get the info that’s an unhelpful messaging style. Not to mention the “out of an abundance of caution” waffle. Just tell us the venues and actions that need to be taken. Also much of it ends in “call healthline 0800 etc etc” repetitive unnecessarily. If it’s the same advice for the following groups then list that first. Then the venues.

Alternatively link to a site that’s formatted well for phones as people check news on the go and it’s annoying to be swiping back and forth to read across the table.

Comms team need to take on board the feedback given and improve.

As an aside, I feel Public Health underestimated the nature of a school cluster in a lower socioeconomic area and the challenges that brings. On top of that a variant of concern.

Repeated phone calls and texts expecting a different outcome is the very definition of madness. And sending a letter to follow up is an approach that should be left back in the stone ages. Our mail services were scaled back long before COVID and I’ve still had problems not receiving mail. Public health should have been on the doorsteps earlier.

Cant buy that sorry. Im in ChCh, hardly the epicentre of infections. I can't be bothered watching live updates or non live updates. I dint need to, the messages to all of us are quite clear and quite simple. Its been a year. There are no secrets.If I felt crook today and got a test, its COMMON SENSE to stay home, let alone if in Auckland.

I dont want to be appear ageist, but the most phone welded to the wrists demographic is younger people. 15 attempts to call them? To me that just fits in with the cant be bothered attitude that was in the news today. Relating to the younger ones. If you want to filter off the details, its COMMON SENSE

Im living the dream in ChCh, I'd be P!SSED AS if i was shortcut in my lifestyle by idiots. If it was the expected inevitable occasional leak I have no issue sucking it up.

But for Aucklanders t be forced to suck it up by a choice of a few idiots? Nah, can't buy that. Covid 19 and all the measures we should take are OLD news.

tdgeek

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#2666929 2-Mar-2021 19:14

Fred99:

I know. Half the posts here these days seem to be stating one or more of the following:

young people are all idiots
the MOH are all idiots
our politicians are all idiots
the education system is stuffed
people from lower decile groups are bad
passengers in MIQ are selfish

Yet here we are, living relatively freely and unscathed from a global pandemic that's wreaked havoc elsewhere. What will stuff it up - is giving airtime to the divisive, untrusting BS that seems to develop every.single.time there's a case of CT - something our leaders always said was inevitable, and something that they've always managed to contain / ring fence.

That hasn't happened because we were "lucky". We've been smart about it - with lapses most often only seen in hindsight. Those lapses got plenty of attention from experts.

1000%. Im quite proud how we have done. We dont operate a prison culture. 100% of the cases we get are from returning citizens, Im fine with that. If aside from the legal aspect, we ban our own, well then what are we?

Although something does have to be done with the intentional complacency that we have seen, unsure of what.

antonknee

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#2666930 2-Mar-2021 19:17

Just catching up on this thread - in particular I wanted to comment on the suggestion that 11 missed phone calls was not sufficient and MOH should send a text.

I am a contact who was called by the National Investigation and Tracing Centre. I missed their first phone call, a voicemail was left, and a text message came in a moment or two later saying it was the MOH it was urgent and to answer. They then tried my work phone number (God knows how they have it) and the same thing happened.

To be blunt, after 11 missed calls I would be at least curious what it was and ring back or Google the number.

tdgeek

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#2666931 2-Mar-2021 19:22

GV27:

There's smart and the question of could we be smart-er. I've seen claims that a lot of the recommendations from the Simpson/Roche report haven't been implemented (and nor has there been much chance for scrutiny cynically given it was held back until the Thursday before Xmas); we have done very well to date and I think there's a mix of unhelpful politically-opportune 'gotcha!' style commentary mixed with some valid questions about our latest response/the clarity of communications, etc when it comes to this outbreak.

When this is all said and done, I'd love to know what the effects of the 'casual plus' distinctions and tiers have been from a research point of view. That and the decision to move down to L1 from L2 are the only things recently I think that I've been left scratching my head over and would like to know more about in the fullness of time.

All political eh? the bottom line is that AKL had an outbreak, big deal, expected, unavoidable. Short lockdown, sorted. But when idiots not only flout but become voluntary happy spreaders at supermarkets, gyms and malls, well how can you combat that??

MIQ, i,e, the source of every infection is not a building or a place or a concept or a Govt mandated "thing". Its a group of Kiwi's, who manage arrivals, transport arrivals, clean, feed and secure arrivals. MIQ is people, us. They do their best and they make the odd mistake. A dozen incidents of 100,000+ is pretty good math. If you need to blame, blame Kiwis. The MIQ Kiwis deserve a medal. They work IN Covid. The rest of us mostly do our best. Blame the happy, voluntary perpetrators that put AKL into lockdown, with what is likely to be well more than 7 days.

Thats the simple reality

tdgeek

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#2666932 2-Mar-2021 19:26

Fred99:

I also commented that the move down levels seemed unwise, but like almost everybody else, I did it in hindsight.

Me too, although I expected it to be fine. Without these idiots it probably would have been. We cannot expect everyone to be super awesome, so that will drag out a containment, but what Ive seen lately its over and above "unfortunate" Its not unlucky or a mistake, its negligence.

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#2666941 2-Mar-2021 20:05

Fred99:

GV27:

When this is all said and done, I'd love to know what the effects of the 'casual plus' distinctions and tiers have been from a research point of view. That and the decision to move down to L1 from L2 are the only things recently I think that I've been left scratching my head over and would like to know more about in the fullness of time.

I'm guessing that the message has been received loud and clear about casual "plus" and other tweaks. There was discussion about increasing the number of alert levels, rejected because that may add confusion. The MoH knows what the issues are.

I also commented that the move down levels seemed unwise, but like almost everybody else, I did it in hindsight.

Nothing is as simple as many people expect or hope it should be. It's fair to question experts, and it's reasonable to expect a response to fair questions. The way things are heading, everything is at risk of falling apart, in my opinion.

Falling apart is more likely due to the far more contagious new variants than anything else. They are much much harder to contain, at least that's what's happened here. Precautions that were effective previously don't work as well.

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