2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2737553 1-Jul-2021 19:36

Handle9:

It's pretty simple.

If you are last in vaccinations you haven't done a good job. The rest is just excuses.

The whole Covid thing is less about a 'race', and more about amassing fewer 'statistics'.

To date NZ has done very well.

Handle9

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#2737556 1-Jul-2021 19:40

BlinkyBill:

Handle9:

It's pretty simple.

If you are last in vaccinations you haven't done a good job. The rest is just excuses.

It’s very easy to assert ‘you haven’t done a good job’. If you can do better, how? Why aren’t you advising the government on what to do?

The rationale is: go for the best vaccine so we can get the best outcome. Supplies aren’t immediately available just for NZ and we don’t have the infrastructure to vaccinate everyone on day 1, so build capability. Focus on highest needs segments first. We have border isolation to hold cases down while we progress to an optimal outcome.

What aspects of those components of the strategy are faulty?

It's obfuscation to focus on details and avoid benchmarking yourself against what other people are doing. If you are comparing 9th with 11th it makes sense to focus on details, you are talking about small differences. Australia and NZ are much the same in the quality of their vaccine roll out. It's poor.

Rikkitic

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#2737557 1-Jul-2021 19:45

At the end of the day, if there is an end of the day, my only concern will be how many people died here, and how many died there. So far, we aren't doing too badly.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Handle9

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#2737561 1-Jul-2021 19:53

Rikkitic:
At the end of the day, if there is an end of the day, my only concern will be how many people died here, and how many died there. So far, we aren't doing too badly.

On that side it's gone very well which is great.

I don't really get the defensiveness about calling the vaccine rollout what it is - very slow. When a large outbreak gets into NZ, because it inevitably will, vaccination is the only thing that will prevent a lot of deaths.

Fred99

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#2737562 1-Jul-2021 19:53

Handle9:Australia and NZ are much the same in the quality of their vaccine roll out. It's poor.

That's actually very dependant on who you're comparing Au/NZ with. On a global vaccine rollout comparison, we're about average. Unfortunately for most of all the other nations - they've got ongoing CT, deaths, hospitalisations, and an unknown future burden from sequelae from a virus we still know far too little about. Furthermore, in some of the countries that do have higher vaccination rates, they've used vaccines which are not very good now - and are probably destined to become even worse as the virus evolves.

The need is less urgent here, the response in both countries have been world-leading, vaccines are part of the response, the "tight spot" we're in now WRT to the need to maintain quarantine as part of an exit strategy was always known and allowed for.

People should stop their pointless selfish whining and start being grateful for the fact that we don't have tens of thousands of corpses from C-19 already.

Handle9

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#2737569 1-Jul-2021 19:54

Fred99:
Handle9:Australia and NZ are much the same in the quality of their vaccine roll out. It's poor.

That's actually very dependant on who you're comparing Au/NZ with. On a global vaccine rollout comparison, we're about average. Unfortunately for most of all the other nations - they've got ongoing CT, deaths, hospitalisations, and an unknown future burden from sequelae from a virus we still know far too little about. Furthermore, in some of the countries that do have higher vaccination rates, they've used vaccines which are not very good now - and are probably destined to become even worse as the virus evolves.

The need is less urgent here, the response in both countries have been world-leading, vaccines are part of the response, the "tight spot" we're in now WRT to the need to maintain quarantine as part of an exit strategy was always known and allowed for.

People should stop their pointless selfish whining and start being grateful for the fact that we don't have tens of thousands of corpses from C-19 already.

Who are you comparing yourself with if you say it's average?

Oblivian

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#2737599 1-Jul-2021 21:41

Couldn't work out why a meme popped up with normal sick people shown in bed, covid patient's being a hobbit 'im going on an adventure'

Since see why.
Of the 24 nsw cases today, half were symptomatic or going about life as normal while. Oh dear.

One was lined up at a vac centre.

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Fred99

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#2737601 1-Jul-2021 22:01

Handle9:

Who are you comparing yourself with if you say it's average?

Every other nation in the world. We're about middle in terms of dose per million. Is there a valid reason why we think we should be higher in the midst of a global pandemic that's not infecting people here?

Handle9

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#2737603 1-Jul-2021 22:13

Fred99:

Handle9:

Who are you comparing yourself with if you say it's average?

Every other nation in the world. We're about middle in terms of dose per million. Is there a valid reason why we think we should be higher in the midst of a global pandemic that's not infecting people here?

What's a valid reason? If you consider New Zealand compared to other western developed countries we judge ourselves against in every other pursuit we are doing poorly.

Fred99

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#2737621 1-Jul-2021 23:17

Handle9:

What's a valid reason? If you consider New Zealand compared to other western developed countries we judge ourselves against in every other pursuit we are doing poorly.

Except in human toll of death and illness, and disruption to daily lives ("freedoms") and toll on business from lockdowns, we're at the top. and we're in absolutely no position to demand or expect priority for delivery of vaccine.

So the comparison with other "first world" countries on vaccine delivery is moronic, pointless, Bullsh*t.

GV27

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#2737684 2-Jul-2021 06:46

Fred99:

Except in human toll of death and illness, and disruption to daily lives ("freedoms") and toll on business from lockdowns, we're at the top. and we're in absolutely no position to demand or expect priority for delivery of vaccine.

So because it could be worse, we're not allowed to criticise any aspect of the response or rollout?

It's a bit of a theme in this thread, even when it's just trying to hold what the government has said was happening or going to happen (contact tracing, border testing, vaccinations, etc) that because other places have stuffed up their response, we're not allowed to criticise ours at all, or even question it.

tdgeek

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#2737686 2-Jul-2021 07:15

BlinkyBill:

I didn’t realise the objective was to be at the top of the tables … I thought we were aiming for a realistically optimal health outcome here.

100%. We are at or near the top of the table for health outcome, economy ( I read yesterday we are back at full employment) and as normal a lifestyle as can be hoped for. Maybe thats not enough for some.

tdgeek

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#2737687 2-Jul-2021 07:20

GV27:

Fred99:

Except in human toll of death and illness, and disruption to daily lives ("freedoms") and toll on business from lockdowns, we're at the top. and we're in absolutely no position to demand or expect priority for delivery of vaccine.

So because it could be worse, we're not allowed to criticise any aspect of the response or rollout?

It's a bit of a theme in this thread, even when it's just trying to hold what the government has said was happening or going to happen (contact tracing, border testing, vaccinations, etc) that because other places have stuffed up their response, we're not allowed to criticise ours at all, or even question it.

Thats rubbish, you are in the wrong thread. Again. The issue here is the slow vaccine rollout. Is it slow? Yes. But its about the slow vaccine supplies. How can you have a rollout when you have no vaccines? Freaking hell, how basic is that?

sbiddle

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#2737688 2-Jul-2021 07:24

Fred99:

Handle9:

What's a valid reason? If you consider New Zealand compared to other western developed countries we judge ourselves against in every other pursuit we are doing poorly.

Except in human toll of death and illness, and disruption to daily lives ("freedoms") and toll on business from lockdowns, we're at the top. and we're in absolutely no position to demand or expect priority for delivery of vaccine.

So the comparison with other "first world" countries on vaccine delivery is moronic, pointless, Bullsh*t.

The simple reality is Australia isn't really that different from NZ except for the fact they've been unlucky with a few more major CT cases than us. I'd love you to try and explain your reasoning to them, because they're just about on the verge of an uprising due to the lack of vaccines over there.

GV27

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#2737689 2-Jul-2021 07:25

tdgeek:

Thats rubbish, you are in the wrong thread. Again. The issue here is the slow vaccine rollout. Is it slow? Yes. But its about the slow vaccine supplies. How can you have a rollout when you have no vaccines? Freaking hell, how basic is that?

Per the Herald - it is not 'just about supply':

If at times it seemed that the Government was making it up on the fly, that's because it probably was in relation to some aspects of the rollout.

It has had to balance the need to communicate a plan to the public before finely-tuned details of the plan were known.

The Auditor-General's report called out the Government and the ministry for not being as transparent or organised as it could have been.

By mid-April, the ministry was yet to complete a detailed immunisation plan, didn't really know what role GPs and pharmacies would play, and hadn't done detailed planning around what to do if shipments failed to arrive or resources had to be diverted for a community outbreak.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-derek-cheng-how-vaccination-delivery-failed-to-meet-expectations/GMJ4KU3SLYPC7L6HILEITT2WCM/ But thanks for proving my point. Our response has triggered this weird brand of nationalism which I'm not quite sure I understand, especially in light of repeated issues and independent reports around contact tracing, border testing, communications and now vaccines, and saying so seems to provoke an intensely personal response from some people.

E: Hipkins again in the same article:

"On reflection, we probably could have been clearer that it was going to take some time to work our way through group 3," Hipkins told the Herald yesterday.

"We certainly could have been clearer right from the beginning that it is going to be a three- or four-month process."

Hipkins added that using the term "front of the queue", while not entirely inappropriate with the message he was trying to convey at the time, was in hindsight probably a "poorly chosen metaphor".

So he admits it was poorly chosen and that they could have been clearer. Maybe some people here could keep that in mind before they go telling people that they're spreading bullshit or other such dismissive responses.

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