2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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946 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2737840 2-Jul-2021 10:59

tieke:

but also the hit to our international reputation/trade etc would have been massive: we would have been portrayed (quite accurately) as a covid-free country essentially bribing a corporation to let our international customers die so that we could quickly vaccinate against a disease that we had little chance of getting.

That is true only in hindsight, we could easily have been a Taiwan or similar (still could be).

Fred99

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#2737847 2-Jul-2021 11:18

GV27:

Fred99:

Except in human toll of death and illness, and disruption to daily lives ("freedoms") and toll on business from lockdowns, we're at the top. and we're in absolutely no position to demand or expect priority for delivery of vaccine.

So because it could be worse, we're not allowed to criticise any aspect of the response or rollout?

It's a bit of a theme in this thread, even when it's just trying to hold what the government has said was happening or going to happen (contact tracing, border testing, vaccinations, etc) that because other places have stuffed up their response, we're not allowed to criticise ours at all, or even question it.

Get a grip. Nobody is "not allowing you to criticise" any aspect blah blah.

Go back in this thread and you'll find I've been a constant critic.

The comparison of vaccination rates with countries with a far more urgent need than ours is stupid, it was never "the plan" that we should queue-jump, it would have been morally indefensible for us (Australia and NZ) to try to force it.

As far as Aus rollout goes, if the news I've been reading is correct, they've got many healthcare and associated workers including non contact staff *who should have been high priority* still unvaccinated. That is simply crazy. With limited vaccine supplies, prioritisation is critical, and that's a fail.

FineWine

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#2737889 2-Jul-2021 12:43

Well my partner and I are fully vaccinated as of Wednesday. Both of us had no reactions to the first jab but we both had mild area discomfort after the 2nd jab.

Speaking to our GP he stated that all the reactions he has heard about or dealt with personally have disappeared within 24 hours post jab. He only had one major reaction sighted which came from an elderly patient of his, of arm down to hand swelling which he immediately reported to the appropriate authorities who immediately got back and said that yes there had been X number worldwide reported and that the swelling disappeared within 24 - 48 hours.

As an aside, being a retired paediatric nurse of 30 years and having given loads of child vaccinations, I used to pre-dose the kids with Panadol and advise the parents on this. To the thinking of the time, this was to reduce pain/discomfort, post jab inflammation and fever and in general to have a mild settling effect on the child. The thinking and policy now has changed. They now want the body to have these post jab reactions so the body fully learns and remembers the vaccines messages. A bit tough on the kids but I suppose it teaches them pain and reaction levels for their body and mind.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Fred99

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#2737897 2-Jul-2021 13:18

31 new CT cases in Sydney today, 13 "active in the community" while (presumed) infectious.

Not bad, but not great either. If cases aren't falling over the next few days, maybe they'll need to tighten up on lockdown rules.

They seem to be more-or-less keeping up with contact tracing / linking cases, but if they lose track, there's probably no way back.

GV27

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#2737898 2-Jul-2021 13:21

Fred99:

Get a grip. Nobody is "not allowing you to criticise" any aspect blah blah.

Cool, then maybe people can be less defensive and take it less personally when others comment on aspects of our response that haven't met the (admittedly lofty) standards that have been set by those delivering the response.

There is no surer way to end up with a wide-spread outbreak than to just ignore anything we're doing wrong because we got a bunch of stuff right at the start, and given my elderly grandparent, young family and the work stress the last lockdown bought on, I can't stand people making excuses or waving away concerns about the response in areas where it clearly isn't measuring up, given that the relevant ministers accept that as happening.

MadEngineer

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#2737899 2-Jul-2021 13:21

FineWine:As an aside, being a retired paediatric nurse of 30 years and having given loads of child vaccinations, I used to pre-dose the kids with Panadol and advise the parents on this. To the thinking of the time, this was to reduce pain/discomfort, post jab inflammation and fever and in general to have a mild settling effect on the child. The thinking and policy now has changed. They now want the body to have these post jab reactions so the body fully learns and remembers the vaccines messages. A bit tough on the kids but I suppose it teaches them pain and reaction levels for their body and mind.

Hah I recall having similar when I broke my leg as a young fella. I was given a small needle of something then a larger than life needle after that. I'm certain that first needle did nothing for the second monster.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

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GV27

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#2737901 2-Jul-2021 13:27

Also I'm not just venting at government because 'government bad' - I also frequently post my dismay at how I'm the only person signing into places and how hard the scanning QRs are at some places, like supermarkets or suburban markets, which have been shown to be spreading locations overseas.

So I guess we're all stuffing up the 'doing our part' part?

tdgeek

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#2737903 2-Jul-2021 13:27

Thats an over reaction. Comms hasnt been the best etc. Got in early etc too. Probably should have paid more and got more jabs instead of other countries. But the litmus test to me is that we are almost out of jabs. So whatever issues we have had, and do have and will have, sitting on jabs isnt one of them. The supplies we get are jabbed, and we are about to run dry, thats great, they are being used it seems as quick as we get them, and that's the whole point

Oblivian

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#2737907 2-Jul-2021 13:30

Fred99:

31 new CT cases in Sydney today, 13 "active in the community" while (presumed) infectious.

Not bad, but not great either. If cases aren't falling over the next few days, maybe they'll need to tighten up on lockdown rules.

They seem to be more-or-less keeping up with contact tracing / linking cases, but if they lose track, there's probably no way back.

And 3 in Brisbane - 1 related to known, 2 which have been 'extensively' out and about around Brisbane. While symptomatic.

Fred99

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#2737928 2-Jul-2021 13:50

GV27:

Fred99:

Get a grip. Nobody is "not allowing you to criticise" any aspect blah blah.

Cool, then maybe people can be less defensive and take it less personally when others comment on aspects of our response that haven't met the (admittedly lofty) standards that have been set by those delivering the response.

There is no surer way to end up with a wide-spread outbreak than to just ignore anything we're doing wrong because we got a bunch of stuff right at the start, and given my elderly grandparent, young family and the work stress the last lockdown bought on, I can't stand people making excuses or waving away concerns about the response in areas where it clearly isn't measuring up, and even the relevant ministers accept that.

Our biggest "controllable" risk is seizing defeat from the jaws of victory. The pace of the vaccine rollout may be frustratingly slow, but it is what is is, and +/- is going to plan, and I think has been targeted/prioritised the right way.

But Delta variant is a threat, lockdowns might be able to contain it - but they're likely to have to be even harsher, more extensive, and a damned sight more expensive than in the past.

I'm not confident that level one restrictions are enough while almost nobody is scanning in, in winter where unlike last year there is the usual spike in cases of other viral respiratory infections, the initial symptoms of delta are different from other variants, they're just like any "normal" cold or "flu" - so if we get CT of Delta it's less likely to be picked up quickly enough and then tracing and containing it becomes exponentially more difficult - or impossible. We're asking for trouble, and not doing enough IMO. And government needs to do something before it's too late.

tdgeek

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#2737931 2-Jul-2021 13:57

Fred99:

We're asking for trouble, and not doing enough IMO. And government needs to do something before it's too late.

Its human greed and apathy. We saw that when in Italy in early 2020, they scarpered around the country when the lockdown was leaked. NZ in mid 2021, no scans, no tests. Govt should mandate scans and mask use. There will be an uproar off course, but if the baby won't eat, you spoonfeed it

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wellygary

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#2737933 2-Jul-2021 14:00

Fred99:

31 new CT cases in Sydney today, 13 "active in the community" while (presumed) infectious.

Not bad, but not great either. If cases aren't falling over the next few days, maybe they'll need to tighten up on lockdown rules.

They seem to be more-or-less keeping up with contact tracing / linking cases, but if they lose track, there's probably no way back.

They are now 5 days on from their lockdown ( all the test results are upto 8pm Thursday) so they should be getting to the end of those infected prior to the lockdown restrictions... The big number out of Sydney is testing, 73,000 swabs yesterday,- thats smashing it out of the park and should help cast a big net....

If they keep testing over 60K over the weekend and next week they should start to run this to ground.... (assuming everyone stays home and doesn't move round too much....)

GV27

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#2737938 2-Jul-2021 14:06

Fred99:

Our biggest "controllable" risk is seizing defeat from the jaws of victory. The pace of the vaccine rollout may be frustratingly slow, but it is what is is, and +/- is going to plan, and I think has been targeted/prioritised the right way.

But Delta variant is a threat, lockdowns might be able to contain it - but they're likely to have to be even harsher, more extensive, and a damned sight more expensive than in the past.

I'm not confident that level one restrictions are enough while almost nobody is scanning in, in winter where unlike last year there is the usual spike in cases of other viral respiratory infections, the initial symptoms of delta are different from other variants, they're just like any "normal" cold or "flu" - so if we get CT of Delta it's less likely to be picked up quickly enough and then tracing and containing it becomes exponentially more difficult - or impossible. We're asking for trouble, and not doing enough IMO. And government needs to do something before it's too late.

Given that my local supermarket has a tiny A5 sign-in poster at the entrance and that NO ONE at the urban chic trendy market I sometimes go to has ever scanned in when I've been there other my partner and I, if anyone is to blame for the Delta variant spreading its wings here, it will be the apathy of citizens.

The government could nail every single thing and it won't count for anything if we are letting the side down.

sbiddle

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#2737947 2-Jul-2021 14:33

Wow massive announcements out of Australia happening right now in a press conference by ScoMo - basically accepting in principle that Covid can't be eliminated and they we'll have to live with it much along the lines of what Singapore have announced. That's something they will be transitioning too.

Should hopefully be summaries hitting the media soon, and it will be interesting to see what impact this could have on the bubble this year.

wellygary

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#2737958 2-Jul-2021 14:44

sbiddle:

Wow massive announcements out of Australia happening right now in a press conference by ScoMo - basically accepting in principle that Covid can't be eliminated and they we'll have to live with it much along the lines of what Singapore have announced. That's something they will be transitioning too.

Should hopefully be summaries hitting the media soon, and it will be interesting to see what impact this could have on the bubble this year.

Yeah, also saw the thing about looking to move to 7 day home isolation for vaccinated travellers, (with a trial first)

NZ will have to assess if this impacts the "low risk"-ness of Aust,

If it does change the risk then I think the bubble is over, but if it doesn't then the question will be why can't we do it here....

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