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Fred99
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  #2748024 22-Jul-2021 10:16
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Handle9:

To make a fair chunk of them comply will require measures like vaccine passports to attend bars and sporting or religious events. I doubt any politician has the spine to go that far.

 

French politicians seem to have the guts to set a *balance between minority freedoms and common good:

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/21/france-rolls-out-new-covid-19-health-pass-as-infections-surge

 

*that's with the scales tilted firmly in favour of not making concessions to nutters.

 

 




DS248
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  #2748034 22-Jul-2021 10:55
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sbiddle:

 

DS248:

 

Some restrictions return to Israel as coronavirus cases continue to climb.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/some-restrictions-return-as-coronavirus-cases-continue-to-climb/

 

...

 

- in country with one of the highest proportions of its adult population vaccinated (but also currently a high rate of new infections). 

 

Meanwhile, in the England ...

 

 

England actually has more adults vaccinated (with at least their first jab) than Israel. Comparing stats is becoming increasingly difficult due to the differing approaches to vaccinating those under 16, and I suspect there will be a growing number of countries who opt to not vaccinate children, or if they do it may only be 12-16 yr olds which is going to make comparing percentages of full population very difficult.

 

England sits at around 87% of adults who have had their first jab (Wales is 90, Scotland is 89) and 100% of adults who have been offered their first jab vs 2nd dose figures which are around 15-20 below that but that is growing rapidly every day.

 

It's pretty clear capturing the last ~10% who are either vaccine hesitant or anti vaxxers is going to be incredibly difficult.

 

Israel has struggled to get much over 80% in part due to the ultra-orthodox hangouts where vaccine rates are still lower.

 

Here's a story from a few days ago from Israel saying there was only a single case of somebody aged under 60 who was fully vaccinated who had serious symptoms (and they were in the 50-59 bracket). Everybody else was either over 60 or was unvaccinated.  Vaccines do work.

 

 

 

 

re "England actually has more adults vaccinated (with at least their first jab) than Israel."

 

Assuming you mean by percentage of population, that is only correct for people over 60 (and even then, only marginally so).

 

See plots below for comparison between England & Israel vaccination rates by age band.

 

Data are as at 20 July 2021 (hot off the press!).  In both cases directly from official government sources. 

 

Vaccination rates in England for under-50's are well below the corresponding Israeli rates.

 

 

 

 

Note re 'x-29' Age Group:  Data for England are for '18_29' year olds; those for Israel are for  '20_29' year olds.

 

 

 

Data sources (accessed 22 July 21)

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations?areaType=nation&areaName=England

 

https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

 

 

 

 


Scott3
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  #2748035 22-Jul-2021 10:55
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Regarding the above graph, Yes it's fairly old.

 

I posted it because it seems to be largely on the money with regards to dosing volumes to (cira 1.5m doses in mid july), seems to tie in well with the governments goal of getting everybody who ones a vaccine done by the end of the year.

 

There has been relatively little well presented data like this on the vaccine roll-out.

 

 

 

Ignore the Group 4 start date. 1 July date on the graph (when only 1m doses have been given out total) was going to result in an epic overlap between Group 3 and Group 4. Something that kinda goes against the principals of a prioritization scheme.

 

This date has already been pushed back a month. Even then we will have only given out cira 2m doses (roughly half of what is needed to cover groups 1 - 3). Suspect what will happen is that the remaining group 3 people will be given booking codes before the end of the month (and some kind of booking method for those who have got missed by the code messaging). These people will then book out the next 1.5+ months of appointments. I expect that group 4 will go live for 60+ year olds as planned at the end of the month, but they will all be booking appointments in September onward.

 

From the curve, it seems pritty clear it is going to be Cira October before we get are getting to a point where vaccination is commonplace for those in group 4.

 

 

 

I hope that given our current massive vaccine supply that they can get the dose rate (curve gradient) higher in Aug / Sept / October.

 

Looking at places like Israel, I think there is a decent chance that our vaccination program hit the point where dose rate drops off and the program becomes participant limited at around 60% of our population (might be a little more for us as we have approval for 12+ years already).

 

 

 

The success or failure is really going to come down to what percentage of population we reach before participants become hard to find. I am actually warming to the likes of the Vodafone events center. Pick a random bunch of people (in this case MIT students + Extended family) and give them special priority access to the vaccine in a one time only offer. The "Now or many months away" choice is more motivating than being able to rock up whenever. Plus people like special treatment.




DS248
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  #2748040 22-Jul-2021 11:10
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The (slightly) amusing thing about the above chart (Scott3 post) is that it clearly suggests vaccination of Group 3 was to start at the beginning of May.  It was later argued that 'start in May' was not intended to mean at the beginning of May - more towards the end. Yeah! 


tdgeek
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  #2748074 22-Jul-2021 11:24
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DS248:

 

The (slightly) amusing thing about the above chart (Scott3 post) is that it clearly suggests vaccination of Group 3 was to start at the beginning of May.  It was later argued that 'start in May' was not intended to mean at the beginning of May - more towards the end. Yeah! 

 

 

Busted! Good spotting!

 

I know there is public scrutiny but they just need to come out and say, "we wont meet early May, so it will now be late May, the process is quite difficult"

 

Easier to respond to that than duck the issue then get caught out.


DS248
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  #2748079 22-Jul-2021 11:29
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Re vaccine hesitancy.  Looking at the England vs Israel data above, it is clear that the real challenges lies in the under-50 age groups.  Over 90% of 50 & above in Israel have had their first jab.

 

It is likely we will see a similar pattern here.

 

More needs to be done to encourage younger people to be vaccinated.  It would seem be better to drop any age streaming for people under 50 to avoid discouraging younger people.


Buster
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  #2748092 22-Jul-2021 11:39
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tdgeek:

 

DS248:

 

The (slightly) amusing thing about the above chart (Scott3 post) is that it clearly suggests vaccination of Group 3 was to start at the beginning of May.  It was later argued that 'start in May' was not intended to mean at the beginning of May - more towards the end. Yeah! 

 

 

Busted! Good spotting!

 

I know there is public scrutiny but they just need to come out and say, "we wont meet early May, so it will now be late May, the process is quite difficult"

 

Easier to respond to that than duck the issue then get caught out.

 

 

 

 

Standard politicking? Make announcement a little bit vague (some wiggle room) but in the most optimistic popular manner, to pacify the voters.

 

Add in the detail later (just in time) when it easier to get it right.


 
 
 

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DS248
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  #2748104 22-Jul-2021 11:49
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Buster:

 

...

 

Standard politicking? Make announcement a little bit vague (some wiggle room) but in the most optimistic popular manner, to pacify the voters.

 

Add in the detail later (just in time) when it easier to get it right.

 

 

 

 

Not a lot of wiggle room in that chart.


tdgeek
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  #2748109 22-Jul-2021 11:53
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Buster:

 

 

 

Standard politicking? Make announcement a little bit vague (some wiggle room) but in the most optimistic popular manner, to pacify the voters.

 

Add in the detail later (just in time) when it easier to get it right.

 

 

Start of May isnt vague, not when compared to end of May. I suspect they projected start of May and over time that's blown out by a few weeks, so just say that, no biggie


Buster
297 posts

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  #2748111 22-Jul-2021 12:13
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tdgeek:

 

Start of May isnt vague, not when compared to end of May. I suspect they projected start of May and over time that's blown out by a few weeks, so just say that, no biggie

 

 

 

 

I'm just amused by the keen interest in what is to happen in May (it's now already mid/late July).

 

With Delta I think it is better to focus on today and the coming weeks/months.


tdgeek
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  #2748114 22-Jul-2021 12:21
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Buster:

 

tdgeek:

 

Start of May isnt vague, not when compared to end of May. I suspect they projected start of May and over time that's blown out by a few weeks, so just say that, no biggie

 

 

 

 

I'm just amused by the keen interest in what is to happen in May (it's now already mid/late July).

 

With Delta I think it is better to focus on today and the coming weeks/months.

 

 

Ok, we will ban discussions that prefer to pre today...

 

 


DS248
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  #2748125 22-Jul-2021 12:41
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tdgeek:

 

...

 

I know there is public scrutiny but they just need to come out and say, "we wont meet early May, so it will now be late May, the process is quite difficult"

 

Easier to respond to that than duck the issue then get caught out.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. 

 

And I agree that the 2 -3 weeks slippage is or was not a biggie.

 

Honesty/openness of beauracrates & politicians is a bit more of an issue though.


ezbee
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  #2748138 22-Jul-2021 13:02
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On Israel and UK vaccination data.

 

My understanding with UK a good portion of problem is supply of vaccine, not all lack of arms, extending times between first and second jab ?

 

Interesting to see if anyone has more insights into UK situation.
It seems crazy/unfair to lift the bar unless all who want to get fully vaccinated ( 2 doses plus about 2-3 weeks ).

 

Below seems to indicate their target for end of July is only one dose, thats Adults, those younger well ?

 

UK supply of Pfizer vaccine tight but on track for targets -minister
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-supply-pfizer-vaccine-tight-track-targets-minister-2021-06-11/

""
"I'm confident that Scotland will be able to meet the target of offering every adult at least one dose by the end of July as we will in England as well," he added.
""

 

Our own situation, well we are not stockpiling Pfizer.
Pfizer has lots of extra demand from big powerful countries with infections, we maybe lucky to get what we get. Our Leverage on Pfizer is ? 

 

Meanwhile Taiwan has good phase II results for its vaccine development, but then they have to do stage III.

 

Taiwan's Medigen could be up to 90% effective against COVID: Expert
CECC expert says efficacy of Medigen vaccine could be comparable to Novavax
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4253207

 

Otherwise its a bit of a drip feed of donations and circuitous supply, given big Pharma does not want to offend you know who.


JPNZ
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  #2748149 22-Jul-2021 13:30
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I'm starting to worry that Sydney won't get on top of this latest outbreak..

 

 

 

"NSW has recorded a record 124 new COVID-19 cases, the highest daily number associated with the state’s worsening Delta outbreak.

 

Of the new cases, at least 48 have been active in the community while infectious. About 85,185 tests were completed yesterday.

 

“There’s no doubt that we anticipate case numbers will continue to go up before they start coming down and we need to brace ourselves for that,” Premier Gladys Berejiklian."





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Fred99
13684 posts

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  #2748150 22-Jul-2021 13:33
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124 new cases in Sydney today

 

48 infectious in the community.

 

It's not going down Gladys.  NSW is in very deep trouble, they've got few options, realistically only one.

 

Lock down very hard.

 

Stay with present ineffective lockdown until the end of the year, killing the economy anyway and further increasing the risk of spread to other states and NZ. 

 

Let it rip - and lose thousands of lives while destroying the economy.

 

 

 

 


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