Covid19 as it applies to GZ Members

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#2791166 7-Oct-2021 12:24

James Bond:

Both my wife and I had planned to get our second jab after 8 weeks. Based on recent events, should I change to to six weeks?

Does an extra 2 weeks make that much of a difference?

Tomorrow it would make it 4 weeks.

they have actually brought it back down to 3 weeks.

slightly better antibody production vs getting fully vaccinated quicker

networkn

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#2791167 7-Oct-2021 12:24

James Bond:

Both my wife and I had planned to get our second jab after 8 weeks. Based on recent events, should I change to to six weeks?

Does an extra 2 weeks make that much of a difference?

Tomorrow it would make it 4 weeks.

Go and get your second ASAP. That is the new advice. 3 week wait. 6 is optimal but right now the benefits aren't less than the risks.

My son will have his second on Saturday, a week short of the recommended 6 weeks.

Dynamic

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#2791169 7-Oct-2021 12:26

I suggest doing your own research. Mine suggested an 8-12 week period was optimal, so I have my second jab booked after a 10 week gap. If this outbreak takes off, I'll go early.

What I have not seen in my brief research is whether a 12 week gap gives 2% better protection, 20% better, or 200% better. There may simply not be the data for this sort of estimate or calculation at present.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pfizer+vaccine+optimum+time+between+doses or a similar search might reveal something you consider helpful.

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

blackjack17

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#2791180 7-Oct-2021 12:36

networkn:

I'd still recommend waiting as long as you possibly can. You'll likely find most places won't even offer you or let you have one 3 weeks out unless you have extenuating circumstances.

We will be in L3 for a couple of weeks I'd imagine, if not L4 for another week. Stay home, stay safe and try and wait it out.

Well if schools go back on the 18th is there any point at staying at level 3?

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Oblivian

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#2791182 7-Oct-2021 12:40

Dynamic:
I suggest doing your own research.

You can't pull that line here.

We have leadership advise from medical staff. They have given advise. We don't need to override that with google.

Technofreak

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#2791193 7-Oct-2021 13:03

Oblivian:
Dynamic:

I suggest doing your own research.

You can't pull that line here.

We have leadership advise from medical staff. They have given advise. We don't need to override that with google.

When the official line keeps changing who can blame people for doing their own research?

A couple of examples.

Masks aren't useful no need to wear them, now it's wear, wear, wear your mask.

Three week gap for second dose, then six weeks, now 3 weeks. Confused?

In both cases there were rational reasons around the change in message, the problem in IMO was they never used the real reason they used a furphy instead.

Instead of saying masks didn't work as a way of dampening demand for masks when the supply on had was badly needed for front line staff they should have said masks are useful but not necessary right now as we need what we currently have for front line workers. It would have been an easier sell when the time came to get the general public to use masks.

Instead of making a big deal about 6 weeks being better than 3 as the gap between the first and second doses they should have said we need to make the best use of the currently supply and get as many first doses done as possible and extending the time to 6 week is a good option as that also gives a slight improvement in efficacy. When the supply problem eased then it's not a hard sell to go back to 3 weeks.

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#2791195 7-Oct-2021 13:07

Oblivian:
Dynamic:

I suggest doing your own research.

You can't pull that line here.

We have leadership advise from medical staff. They have given advise. We don't need to override that with google.

In this case, I disagree with you. The medical leadership advice has changed twice (from 3 to 6 weeks and now back).

https://covid19.govt.nz/covid-19-vaccines/how-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccination/book-your-covid-19-vaccination/getting-your-second-dose/ (updated recently to encourage gettign the second dose earlier than 6 weeks)

The poster was asking how much difference the delay makes. I've not seen advice from our medical leadership around that. As they had already selected 8 weeks, they were likely looking to maximise their protection.

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

Oblivian

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#2791204 7-Oct-2021 13:27

Technofreak:

Instead of making a big deal about 6 weeks being better than 3 as the gap between the first and second doses they should have said we need to make the best use of the currently supply and get as many first doses done as possible and extending the time to 6 week is a good option as that also gives a slight improvement in efficacy. When the supply problem eased then it's not a hard sell to go back to 3 weeks.

Like this? https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/time-between-doses-covid-19-vaccine-extended

‘Moving to a longer gap allows us to give a first dose to a larger number of people faster, which means providing more people with partial protection sooner. This is an important part of our being prepared for a possible outbreak of the more infectious Delta variant of the virus.

A lot of the 'big fuss' comes from what the Media focus on. Despite the messaging being more direct. IE the gap change is in the background when we can get the nation onto pointing finger at gangs.

Chris Hipkins just reinforced it to media again early on in todays 1PM.

huckster

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#2791206 7-Oct-2021 13:30

Dynamic:

In this case, I disagree with you. The medical leadership advice has changed twice (from 3 to 6 weeks and now back).

https://covid19.govt.nz/covid-19-vaccines/how-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccination/book-your-covid-19-vaccination/getting-your-second-dose/ (updated recently to encourage gettign the second dose earlier than 6 weeks)

The poster was asking how much difference the delay makes. I've not seen advice from our medical leadership around that. As they had already selected 8 weeks, they were likely looking to maximise their protection.

I got vaccinated back in August and brought my 2nd jab forward from 8 weeks later to be 4 weeks later by visiting the booking site for the DHB, I did that because I needed to take a trip to the UK. I did find some numbers before I left for the UK at the beginning of last month and the % benefits of 3 vs 8 weeks was low single digit %. Can I find that page now? No. I think it was a UK site as they were working off getting the first jab into people's arms as quickly as possible and delayed their 2nd jab to be 12 weeks out.

All the changes the UK made was to maximise getting some protection ASAP vs maximum protection for group A then group B etc.

I think the first change here, from 3 to 6 weeks, was based off increasing the benefit of the vaccine/maximising protection given data from places like the UK vs the original Pfizer/WHO recommendation.

Now we have Delta, the "benefit" analysis is shifting to getting double-jabbed as quickly as possible i.e. something like get 85% efficacy sooner is better than 87% later. These numbers are examples only - 'cos I can't find that page!

Oblivian

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#2791209 7-Oct-2021 13:32

Dynamic:

The poster was asking how much difference the delay makes. I've not seen advice from our medical leadership around that. As they had already selected 8 weeks, they were likely looking to maximise their protection.

As someone mentioned, there appears to still be no clear cut peer papers indicating the exact amount of additional change protection. But it does allow for more people to be done in the same timeframe.

However from original link:

‘Early findings from a small number of well-designed studies show that an extended duration between doses of the Pfizer vaccine gives at least an equally robust immune response, with no additional safety concerns.'

At least at this point, is no better than 'improved' when we have targeted requirements for coverage. And with spread still continuing.

Dynamic

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#2791211 7-Oct-2021 13:41

Thank you @huckster and @Oblivian.

If the difference in effectiveness is in the low single digits, I'd not wait the 10 weeks. Getting fully protected sooner would be a higher priority than a marginal improvement. @huckster could you have another search for that article when time allows and tag me? Perhaps search your browser history?

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huckster

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#2791215 7-Oct-2021 13:48

Dynamic:

Thank you @huckster and @Oblivian.

If the difference in effectiveness is in the low single digits, I'd not wait the 10 weeks. Getting fully protected sooner would be a higher priority than a marginal improvement. @huckster could you have another search for that article when time allows and tag me? Perhaps search your browser history?

I would do but that's on my home PC and I am using a work one in MIQ having returned to NZ a few days ago!

Will try and find it. I was also listening to some BBC Podcasts in August - particularly More or Less, which delves into the statistics behind the numbers - and they did talk about the gap and the benefits.

PS - My UK-based parents had their 3rd dose overnight.

Oblivian

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#2791217 7-Oct-2021 13:52

There are plenty out there. They started wide (12) narrowed to 8. But in general. No solids. Here is one example

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2021/07/pfizer-vaccine-interval-antibody-cells.aspx

https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/covid-19/news/article.aspx?id=1521&returnurl=/covid-19/news/default.aspx&pi=0

It was a small number of NHS staff as the audience..

https://www.pitch-study.org/newsPub.html

huckster

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#2791240 7-Oct-2021 14:03

Not sure I can find it quickly, but this was interesting:

https://www.healthline.com/health/how-long-does-covid-vaccine-protect-you

It says you get 95% efficacy with a 3 week gap. If I found the thing I saw before, I'm sure it was only 1 or 2% more plus the effect lasts a bit longer as described here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/pfizer-vaccine-second-dose-has-sweet-spot-after-eight-weeks-uk-scientists-say

So expect to get one in 6 months time with your next flu jab.

RUKI

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#2791252 7-Oct-2021 14:23

Hope you don't mind me posting this link again.
I have been twice to Drive-through Vaccination Centre near Auckland Airport on Verissimo Drive, no queues both times. .
17 min fast forward video here wth the steps during process explained in titles:
https://youtu.be/l3uP176HgXM

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